Upgrade Warnings - Various windows based problems

snvv - 19.07.2015, 19:17
Post subject: Various windows based problems
After today DU I have very strange KDE behaviour.
When I open an application it gets maximized and I can not even minimize it. Only one application can be active at a moment.

Also, Alt-tab does not work and when I open chromium I can see a window to input the password but it does not accept any key.

I have, actually, no idea what is going on or how might solve the problems. Any idea will be appreciated.

One problem is that pager is messed up. It could not load module for virtual desktops.
vinur - 20.07.2015, 00:12
Post subject: RE: Various windows based problems
Hello snvv,
I have the same issue, but with variations,
all windows will open about halfway.
one application at a time.
the file manager KDE is missing quit buttons - menue can close by adding a quit button manually.
many functions malfunction.
copy and paste across applications marginal at best or non existent.
I can use the computer some but that is just because i am tenacious and try almost anything, to do as workarounds.
This is pretty bad.
I hope it is just a migration to KDE 5 type problem as I can be patient for a while but it is bad. I have a back up computer that must not be upgraded untill this is resolved.
It came from a casual D-U as I saw no problems listed.
So here is a warning - to all. A D-U can mess up the KDE system and I see no general fix as yet. It affects all applications running.
even here I am partially functional.

Add edit:
No bookmarks in Iceweasel
no spell checking anywere.
no top bar functionality.
I did not think of it as i get to this site as my custom home page has a deliberate link on the webpage built in but there is no tab capability as I see.
Generally speaking many people will just have no way to get around if they never made a custom homepage with all of their popular links built into it... I think.

Use great caution on Your Upgrade Distrabution desires.
vinur - 20.07.2015, 03:26
Post subject: RE: Various windows based problems
Greetings all,
I took a great chance in this time of KDE transitions. I do not recommend doing it.
I am still here as it were but the risk is great. KDE is changing, not for the better yet. and the new system is only semi functional.
Although I have restored my system to button functionality running KDE 5.x -mix of 5. and 4.14
It is nuts. I took a leap of faith and installed the new Plasma desktop - don't do this on any important system to you. I have an intuition of what I can get away with but the risks are very great to your desktop environment – its important to me so I am exercising a great deal of caution, yet I am also stepping out into the void as well. KDE in my circumstance is on an AMD 64 based system and the GUI is not greatly functional yet.
How well or with what reliability is a complete unknown. Sane computer users beware.
I have many years on the ragged bleeding edge of alpha everything. I will report back in a few days if it is truly a successful transition – it actually runs so far.
Just beware it is very different and is very unstable at this time..
If you liked KDE 4.14.2 Do Not upgrade the plasma space to 5.whatever, it is nowhere close to being ready.
What works now from this morning:
The menus are back
The tab switching works.
Select copy and paste works OK across applications
Most of the applications work. Icedove is OK web browser Chromium is OK and so is Iceweasel
Google Earth 7.1 is problematic as usual
Libre office works
Printer works Epson WF 7510 + special Linux drivers believe it or not. For a while there was a repository for it. The repository is gone now of course. But they work
A lot of stuff is working better from catastrophe mode this morning.
But KDE is not ready for prime time and looks really dreadful compared to how it was.
I will work the settings but I think a lot of Children are fixing what works to something less, as usual in the new mobile emphases mess they made of the desktop.
I am not full of total regrets yet but I am leaning that way.
I will work it into something I can live with, but it is ugly today.
Spell-checking restored.

Just beware.
slh - 20.07.2015, 04:30
Post subject: RE: Various windows based problems
These problems are due to a partial KDE5 (well, technically plasma 5) installation - which easily happens as several package interdependencies of the new KDE aren't quite perfect yet. It should be fixed by dist-upgrading with these refinements to help the package manager finding a good dependency resolution including the missing packages:
apt update
apt-get dist-upgrade --purge kio-extras+ kde-baseapps+ kio+ kwin-x11+ plasma-desktop+ fonts-oxygen+ kde-config-gtk-style+ kde-config-sddm+ kde-style-oxygen-qt5+ khelpcenter+ khotkeys+ kinfocenter+ kio-extras+ kmenuedit+ kscreen+ ksshaskpass+ ksysguard+ kwrited+ systemsettings+ plasma-workspace+  kde-window-manager- klipper- kactivities+ libkactivities-bin- libkf5config-bin+ libkf5dbusaddons-bin+ libkf5emoticons-bin+ libkf5filemetadata-bin+ libkf5iconthemes-bin+ libkf5kdelibs4support5-bin+ libkf5khtml-bin+ libkf5parts-plugins+ libkf5su-bin+ libkf5wallet-bin+ libkf5xmlgui-bin+ libqt5sql5-sqlite+ kdm- sddm+
Make very sure that you don't run this dist-upgrade under a running KDE- or any kind of X session, but on a plain tty (like tty2) - as X will restart half way into the dist-upgrade (this is strongly recommended for any kind of dist-upgrade anyways, but here it's even more crucial than usual). The "apt-get dist-upgrade" call needs to be in one single line - and trailing +/- signs are important the way they are.

Depending on your installed package set you might need to refine this further.

KDE5/ plasma5 is still 'young' and might have other problems, but this will provide you with a basic(ally) functional plasma5 environment. One known issue to keep in mind is that plasma5 doesn't support 'old-style' (basically anything not provided by KDE5 itself) system-bar notifications, this affects e.g. hplip-gui (if you don't own a HP printer, purge the package).

This special dist-upgrade dance only needs to done once, in order to install the missing packages - afterwards you can dist-upgrade as usual.
vinur - 20.07.2015, 09:27
Post subject: RE: Various windows based problems
Thank you slh, I will do this properly.
I just got lucky in selecting just enough of the new and eliminating just enough of the old to barely get by with a surviving system. But after a fashion it is far better that the train wreck this morning.
I know the developers work hard at preventing this type of scenario.
Transitions of something so complex as KDE and Linux in general can't be easy.
And I admit to running a lot of extra applications, some of which are not exactly recommended. Or very endorsed. Google Earth being one of them.
snvv - 20.07.2015, 10:12
Post subject:
Just take care!!!
After recommended by slh procedure you will be offered the choice to select kdm or sddm windows manager. Choose kdm since sddm brakes the system (does not boot).
slh - 20.07.2015, 20:15
Post subject:
The upgrade hints I gave explicitly remove kdm and replace it with sddm, intentionally. sddm is functional and supported (accordingly you won't be asked to select one display-manager, as only one remains on the system), while kdm is stagnating (no upstream development, no native systemd support).
snvv - 20.07.2015, 22:04
Post subject:
I used the commands you suggested. Actually, I copied and pasted the commands in a script file. Then, in init 2 I run the script. However, at some point, I was offered the choice of either KDM or sddm. I selected sdmm and after the reboot and the loading of drivers I had a black screen. I will try after a couple of days the same process to see what is going to happen.
vinur - 21.07.2015, 07:49
Post subject:
Greetings all,
Well I am still functional, risks and all.
Stefan, your help is appreciated. Although I must say the experience as I have done it is a very hair raising adventure.

When I log out of the system, I have no way to get to a console mode. I can reboot and get to the log on to sddm KDE plasma.

I can get into Plasma 5. and have a fair amount of flexibility.
Yes it is young Smile

Now I have had to use synaptic to some degree (ouch) but it has been useful. Using great care I spotted were I was and more or less were I was going.

I took a long look at your list above, and what I already had installed over the last few months.

I opened kword and pasted the contents of your list verbatim
then copied it.

I opened Konsol as just a user then / to see root and then SU to impediment its capability post root password.

Then entered apt update, it took and built the list of repositories.
Then pasted the list you generated above.

Then I pressed the enter button and saw that a good portion was already installed and the list of what to install was a fraction so I said yes and entered that command. Adventures in terror as I waited the outcome. No auto reboot, after installing what was to be installed.
It just sat there, waiting for me to breath.

As I was already running as little as I could in the windows manager, I did a ctrl+alt+delete to reboot the computer, then and there.

Yes, very dangerous. Don't do it, But my system survived.
And I am here writing about it.

I do not know if I can use the log out screen to get the low level tty consol to use apt-get the way we are suppose to yet.

If anybody has any suggestions on how to restore it.
I would gladly get off this cliff hanging story.

But I am still alive here in the land of plasma KDE.

My advise to anyone reading this, don't do what I just did.
Seriously, every system is a little different and your mileage will vary. If I had any way to have done this outside of a x server that I know of, I would not have sweated it so much.

I live on the edge and this was an example of it.

If all of my applications work as they do seem to, I can live thorough the systems maturation. It is my main system, yes I have backups. So calculated risks.

edit - I can find no way to get to a situation of a running system outside of X as yet. reboots take me straight to the logon screen and no way as yet to back out of it outside of a reboot. no init capabilities as I see yet. systmd has its disadvantages. I will look at kernal options as a list is provided. init might be hiding in that.
bfree - 21.07.2015, 11:10
Post subject:
To get to a terminal outside of X you have a number of choices.

Ctrl+Alt+F1 switches you to the first Virtual Terminal, Ctrl+Alt+F2 the second etc. X will usually be running on the 7th or 8th (Ctrl-Alt-F7).

You can use an xterm/konsole and su (or log in as root in a virtual terminal you get to using the above) to run
service sddm stop
systemctl isolate multi-user.target
The former works if you replace sddm with kdm or lightdm, the later will work if you are using sddm or lightdm but not kdm.

If you are using sddm or lightdm, not kdm, when booting up, at grub you can edit the kernel command line to add:
and then X will not start (but everything else will e.g. networking unlike the single-user or rescue targets).
snvv - 21.07.2015, 11:40
Post subject:
Is there a way to remove complitelly KDE and install mate, cinnamon or xfce?
I suspect we will have a long transition period and I am not sure whether I like the new KDE.
vinur - 21.07.2015, 20:11
Post subject:
Hello bfree:
"To get to a terminal outside of X you have a number of choices."
-Thank You, I did Ctrl+Alt+F1 and then the rest was fast and easy. Now I know, I will not forget. Its a simple thing.

Hello snvv, I think I understand, I went through this from KDE 3 to KDE 4, which in time became really good.
Now from KDE 4 we go to KDE 5. Change is inevitable, however it is also an observation that in the case of an entire desktop environment... the gestation period for it to become good seems to be about its service life.

After a day with it and the changes to it that let me find usability and a look I can live with. Its not as dreadful as I felt it was going to be. This is after all, the unstable seas of aptosid and with the advantage of the most current comes the powerful currents of change. The other desktop environments are fine but as they evolve, it would be much the same.
They too were new at one time and someone I can think of called them "an unholy mess", if i am not mistaken.

I will stick with the devil I know, Its character is something I am use to.
finotti - 21.07.2015, 23:26
Post subject: Re: RE: Various windows based problems
      slh wrote:
These problems are due to a partial KDE5 (well, technically plasma 5) installation - which easily happens as several package interdependencies of the new KDE aren't quite perfect yet. It should be fixed by dist-upgrading with these refinements to help the package manager finding a good dependency resolution including the missing packages: [snip]

Is it recommended that we DU now (with the tweaks above) or those not in a hurry better wait longer? One of my computers, in particular, is a work daily-driver, and I'd rather not run into trouble with it... (Maybe Debian stable would have been wiser for that, but it is rare to have these problems with aptosid...)


slh - 22.07.2015, 02:02
Post subject: RE: Re: RE: Various windows based problems
It depends…

Updating the rest of your system, while carefully excluding everything remotely KDE related is futile in practice - so that's something you can pretty much forget. Which leaves you effectively in a situation where you can't upgrade your system anymore (hint, security issues - particularly regarding webfacing applications like browsers, media players, etc.), nor install any new packages (as those will start pulling in upgrades as well).

The packaging related bugs of Debian's KDE5 packages will hopefully improve soon, just as bugs are reported and fixed. This will hopefully avoid the special upgrade dance rather sooner than later (making it a straight forward/ normal dist-upgrade without any special handholding). I'd expect this to happen somewhere between days and few weeks.
In other words, doing the upgrade should become easier, but the results between an upgrade done now (with the upgrade hints above) and later, when the package dependencies get fixed in Debian, will be more or less identical (so that's not really a reason to wait).

However KDE5 (plasma5), the upstream codebase, is still rather young and will likely mature at a slower pace (there will be another round of upgrades after gcc5 becomes the default in unstable, likely in early august). Improvements in that regard will happen gradually.
This doesn't imply that KDE5 would be broken as a whole, it is functional and usable, you will get your work done with it as well - but there are more rough corners than usual (plasma5 ignores plasma4's configuration files, so the cosmetic customisations of your desktop (wallpaper, ksplash, etc.) and revert to plasma5's upstream defaults).

If you have important tasks pending (e.g. being on a business trip), avoiding upgrades for a couple of days or weeks should be possible without too many problems, but once you start counting in months (as in >=2) it becomes less and less ideal (at least on a system that's in active use and has both an external attack surface or may need further packages being installable when use cases change).

Another option would be to install another desktop environment in parallel (you can even remove KDE5 alltogether, but that's neither necessary nor really a good idea - after all the amounts of diskspace we're talking about are cheap, compared to the size of other operating systems or your data) - and use that if the need arises. Especially coming from KDE, razorqt is worth looking at, just as XFCE could be (and there are many others as well). Look and feel varies among them, but all are made to get your work done.

Testing the dist-upgrade in a virtual machine (e.g. under kvm) could be one option to test KDE5's current state, this way you will get a first impression without affecting your production system. But especially with desktop environments, you'll only notice the really the real bugs (or find workarounds for problems that appear big at first sight) once you start using them in production (just like upstream and Debian KDE teams need feedback from real users, rather than artificial and superficial first impressions based on "screenshots" (or shallow VM-only testing).

As far as aptosid is concerned, we'll try to override broken packages with fixed versions as necessary - but interfering with a large package transition is another case (technically possible, but very unwise[1], as doing so will always create upgrade issues with Debian[2] - which is a moving base).


--> Fixing leaf packages or obvious bugs with an obvious solution is one aspect - and easy.
--> Interfering with an ongoing and large transition another.

On the one hand, as far as rather basic libraries are concerned, it's very easy to change a library's ABI (so if Debian or upstream would fix the problem differently than we'd do it -and in software development there are always multiple ways of fixing the same problem- anyone messing with these is very likely to introduce dependency issue, which would introduce crashes for packages built against a different library ABI)...

On the other hand KDE consists of almost 400 individual (source-)packages (resulting in more than 2100 binary packages), with very intricate interdependencies between the individual packages. How you split these up is a rather personal matter of preference - especially when you don't strictly stick to very peripherial leaf packages, you will clash with official Debian packages, resulting in file conflicts during future upgrades...

Of course it's still easy to do so and boast about how more modern/ up to date you are - or how many bugs you've clashed. But at the end of the day that doesn't matter when (not if) your system explodes during the next Debian upgrade. Bugs need to be fixed (and reported to~) its source. That's where participation helps most, where one can prove to be a good FOSS citizen ("standing on the shoulders of giants"). While isolated/ individual forking might get you your 15 minutes of fame, but always creates huge problems for everyone involved later on (you'll have upgrade and package dependency issues, you upstream will inevitably get bogus bug reports from your users).

To quote our mission, "We aim to be 100% compatible with debian sid." At times this may be less popular than shipping the latest and greatest, fresh out of the sweat shop - but it's the only sane option if you want a reliable and stable system for years, which can be upgraded at all times.

vinur - 22.07.2015, 07:44
Post subject: RE: Re: RE: Various windows based problems
At this time I am feeling a lot more comfortable with the system.
Much of my important functions are OK,
I lost the digital camera USB input capability, but as yet I have not tried to restore that, so I do not know if it is merely an adjustment to reestablish it or is actually gone. Its not critical as I have other aptosid systems untouched for weeks with upgrades and as usual they work fine.
The cosmetics of the system are truly just that, cosmetics.

What is important is it never did lockup or crash.
Following the advice of bfree I now know how to quickly drop out of sddm for upgrades which I did this morning without any issues. The list of the changes recommended by slh are fully implemented,

This machine I use for my daily work machine carries important function which do work.
The one day were all of this was going on is now past and I can list to some degree what was unaffected.

Sound is still good – I am in the audio products business so high end sound never was a computer issue. The systems sound capabilities with a semi-pro sound card is fine, M-audio
Videos from the internet still work quite well. I run at 1920X1080 full color rendition is fine.
I have a lot of video codecs for all the needs I have all still work,

never lost any thumbnail capabilities.

The printer WF 7510 did not lose its .deb drivers – yes there was a repository specific to this printer.

The KDE file manager is better and never did lose is internal thumbnails for any of the file formats I use and I use a lot, they are OK. The only thing not working that I can see at this time is the search function is not working.

I use a lot of spell checking in various word editors and the only place it is iffy is on some forums online.

I lost the screen saver application. I can get along with out that for now.
The switching pictures I use for the background is OK its still there if not as refined as it was.

Cross application cut and paste work OK – this is written in LibreOffice and pasted here in the field.
Spell checking needs.

Had I had some advanced notice of these issues I might have waited, but I stepped into it and adjusted to the new way with some surprise, that I got over quickly.

The system seems stable enough to just get on with work and so far it is OK.

I will say that the e-mail system for some months was getting really bad with strange fonts showing up in reedits of draft messages – that was cured with what has happened. Reason unknown as that was a formal bug I was aware of and it is gone now. It cured it. That is good. I am using icedove. 37.1.0

info bash right now reads:
michael@Eyland0:~$ infobash -v3
Host/Kernel/OS "Eyland0" running Linux 4.1.0-2.slh.2-aptosid-amd64 x86_64 [ aptosid 2013-01 Ἑσπερίδες - kde-lite - (201305050307) ]
CPU Info 8x AMD FX-8120 Eight-Core 2048 KB cache flags( sse3 ht nx lm svm ) clocked at [ 1400.000 MHz ]
Videocard NVIDIA G86 [GeForce 8500 GT] X.Org 1.17.2 [ 1920x1080@60.00hz ]
Network cards D-Link System Inc DGE-560T PCI Express Gigabit
Processes 183 | Uptime 22:35 | Memory 1369.7/7971.4MB | HDD WDC WD1000DHTZ-0,WDC WD6000HLHX-0,AS2105 Size 1920GB (9%used) | GLX Renderer Gallium 0.4 on NV86 | GLX Version Yes | Client Shell | Infobash v3.49

It seems as though all will be OK and I am no longer worried that I broke something and I can live with what is here with faith it will be as awesome as it has been.

If there is any kind of readout anyone would want of the machine, let me know were it is and I can give it.

All of the functionality of iceweasel was restored after the upgrades as per slh
spell checking on line for some websites is still missing – before all sites were good.

I use bluegriffon 1.7.2 with all of the paid for plug-ins and they are all good.
But I did need to create the link to the desktop minus the icon of the griffon its just a plane link icon but works fine.
Gftp is good.

Alt tab for desktop switching is funky and partially missing. But I can use the mouse to select on the lower desktop panel which is good – some widgets work – the analog clock and date widget work.

Dolphin is good and has more data in it visually but search is not happening yet.

At this time the auto log-out to a log-on screen seems unmodifiable, if I am not using the computer for ten minutes it will log out, my default was to never log out automatically by time.

Upgrading really depends on the level of risk one is tolerant of but as far as I am concerned it is OK and I will just carry on as before.
alexk - 23.07.2015, 02:24
Post subject: RE: Re: RE: Various windows based problems
I can't run the special dist-upgrade, get dependency problems with plasma-desktop:
# apt-get dist-upgrade --purge kio-extras+ kde-baseapps+ kio+ kwin-x11+ plasma-desktop+ fonts-oxygen+ kde-config-gtk-style+ kde-config-sddm+ kde-style-oxygen-qt5+ khelpcenter+ khotkeys+ kinfocenter+ kio-extras+ kmenuedit+ kscreen+ ksshaskpass+ ksysguard+ kwrited+ systemsettings+ plasma-workspace+  kde-window-manager- klipper- kactivities+ libkactivities-bin- libkf5config-bin+ libkf5dbusaddons-bin+ libkf5emoticons-bin+ libkf5filemetadata-bin+ libkf5iconthemes-bin+ libkf5kdelibs4support5-bin+ libkf5khtml-bin+ libkf5parts-plugins+ libkf5su-bin+ libkf5wallet-bin+ libkf5xmlgui-bin+ libqt5sql5-sqlite+ kdm- sddm+
Reading package lists... Done
Building dependency tree       
Reading state information... Done
Calculating upgrade... kde-baseapps is already the newest version.
kde-config-gtk-style is already the newest version.
khelpcenter is already the newest version.
khelpcenter set to manually installed.
kinfocenter is already the newest version.
kmenuedit is already the newest version.
kscreen is already the newest version.
kscreen set to manually installed.
ksysguard is already the newest version.
kwin-x11 is already the newest version.
kwin-x11 set to manually installed.
systemsettings is already the newest version.
Some packages could not be installed. This may mean that you have
requested an impossible situation or if you are using the unstable
distribution that some required packages have not yet been created
or been moved out of Incoming.
The following information may help to resolve the situation:

The following packages have unmet dependencies:
 plasma-desktop : Depends: plasma-desktop-data (= 4:5.3.2-1) but it is not going to be installed
E: Error, pkgProblemResolver::Resolve generated breaks, this may be caused by held packages.

# wajig list-hold

# apt-get dist-upgrade
Reading package lists... Done
Building dependency tree       
Reading state information... Done
Calculating upgrade... Done
The following packages have been kept back:
  plasma-desktop python-aptdaemon python-aptdaemon.gtk3widgets
0 upgraded, 0 newly installed, 0 to remove and 3 not upgraded.

I'm running e17 at the moment.
nsm - 31.07.2015, 03:33
Post subject: RE: Re: RE: Various windows based problems
Same here.

Running apt-get -d dist-upgrade, I see packages kept-back.

The following packages have been kept back:
  aptosid-art-kdm-ponos kde-plasma-desktop plasma-desktop

Trying to run the special dist-upgrade dance from slh I get

The following packages have unmet dependencies:
 plasma-desktop : Depends: plasma-desktop-data (= 4:5.3.2-1) but it is not going to be installed
E: Error, pkgProblemResolver::Resolve generated breaks, this may be caused by held packages.

Any suggestion?
slh - 31.07.2015, 04:33
Post subject: RE: Re: RE: Various windows based problems
add the following at the end of the special dist-upgrade command (with a space in front):


that might still fail, but it'll give you further debug info where the dependency resolver needs some more assistance (please report back). Success or failure depends on which packages are installed on your system, so depending on that (the whole dependency graph of your system) it might need to be refined. Also make sure to run apt-get update again, as the current version of plasma-desktop-data in unstable is 4:5.3.2-2 and no longer 4:5.3.2-1.
slh - 31.07.2015, 19:47
Post subject: RE: Re: RE: Various windows based problems
Be aware that the gcc5 transition has been started today. This means C++ applications, to a varying degree, are affected by ABI changes; KDE as a whole is affected significantly and essential parts will be removed in a careless upgrade. Give it a couple of days to adapt.
nsm - 01.08.2015, 00:53
Post subject: RE: Re: RE: Various windows based problems
Cannot report back on your suggestion to add plasma-desktop-data+ at the end of the special dist-upgrade command since the transition to gcc5 has begun and as you predicted, a lot of packages are to be removed. I will have to wait a few days.
vinur - 02.08.2015, 07:48
Post subject: RE: Re: RE: Various windows based problems
I have upgraded several times during the week... until the newest warnings from slh.
just wanted to say that my experience has actually been OK.
Currently my plasma-desktop-data is 4:5.3.2-2.
most of the desktop is very usable, if not a perfectly smooth system and there are some aspects which are not as normal.
application switching is not by Ctrl+Alt+Tab yet but the mouse wheel does it as normal between virtual desktops.
I can live with this as i just adapt to what is working and find work arounds for what is not.
It really is not as painful as I though it would be. Sound is good, videos function both on line and that which I downloaded of a number of types. My web creation tools work: Fully loaded with all the extensions of Blue Griffon 1.7.2 works
Even Google Earth 7.1 is functional but not perfectly stable, although by reputation and history in Debian it should not work at all. neither of those applications are actually supported but I did get GE7.x to work with some tricky help from a variety of sources. What is nice is that through this transition almost anything that I needed to get done has had success.
As of tonight as per the warnings I am not doing any upgrades beyond what I have done a couple of days ago.
nsm - 03.08.2015, 15:23
Post subject: RE: Re: RE: Various windows based problems
As of today, du still out of reach:
yesterday: 31 packages to remove
today: 61 packages to remove.

I have been lucky to use such a nice distribution as aptosid (and sidux before) for many years; so, let's wait for the storm to vanish.
alexk - 04.08.2015, 03:16
Post subject: RE: Re: RE: Various windows based problems
Here, 76 currently.
150 upgraded, 19 newly installed, 76 to remove and 3 not upgraded.

alexk - 06.08.2015, 02:29
Post subject: RE: Re: RE: Various windows based problems
Every day, more packages to upgrade and to remove. Need to be patient. Besides KDE parts, packages to remove include apps like amarok, audacity, blender, blogilo, clementine, digikam and libreoffice.
278 upgraded, 27 newly installed, 99 to remove and 6 not upgraded.

slh - 06.08.2015, 10:01
Post subject: RE: Re: RE: Various windows based problems
It gets worse, much worse, before it can get better. The gcc-5 transition, which changes ABI for many C++ based packages, needs to be done in 22 stages (and several packages entangled in circular dependency chains). The more of the lower stages are completed, the worse it gets for packages in the upper stages. Unfortunately especially high-profile packages like libreoffice and KDE depend on many other lower level packages (mostly libraries), so they're among the first to break - and the last to get fixed.
vinur - 11.08.2015, 21:29
Post subject: RE: Re: RE: Various windows based problems
Nothing specifically new to report, except for reasons difficult to describe system latency issues are progressively worse. Login to KDE plasma 5 is taking longer, so much so I am on a backup system now, Just waiting for some word. Don't upgrade anything yet, would be my cautious approach.
alexk - 12.08.2015, 03:29
Post subject: RE: Re: RE: Various windows based problems
I had latency issues as well in Plasma 5. I've been happily using e17 in the meantime, which is my backup environment. I recently had over 200 packages to remove on dist-upgrade, now only 110, so maybe that's progress. Smile
Luis_P - 14.08.2015, 13:32
Post subject: d-u wtih no problems
I've run d-u today without problems. (Desktop is not KDE but Xfce).

$ infobash -v3
Host/Kernel/OS  "aptosidbox1" running Linux 4.1.0-5.slh.1-aptosid-amd64 x86_64 [ aptosid 2011-03 Πόνος - xfce - (201112312100) ]
CPU Info        2x AMD Athlon II X2 250 1024 KB cache flags( sse3 ht nx lm svm ) clocked at [ 1800.000 MHz ]
Videocard       Advanced Micro Devices, [AMD/ATI] RV730 PRO [Radeon HD 4650]  X.Org 1.17.2  [ 1280x1024@60.02hz ]
Network cards   Realtek RTL-8100/8101L/8139 PCI Fast
                NVIDIA MCP77
Processes 153 | Uptime 15min | Memory 428.8/2006.0MB | HDD Maxtor 6Y080L0,ST3250318AS Size 332GB (14%used) | GLX Renderer Gallium 0.4 on AMD RV730 | GLX Version Yes | Client Shell | Infobash v3.49

alexk - 14.08.2015, 15:40
Post subject: RE: d-u wtih no problems
Still waiting here, with KDE:
The following packages will be REMOVED:
  adept akonadiconsole akregator audacity backintime-kde baloo-utils baloo4 blender blogilo digikam
  digikam-private-libs dolphin gdebi-kde inkscape kaddressbook kalarm kdegraphics-strigi-analyzer
  kdenetwork kdepim-kresources kdepim-runtime kdesdk-strigi-plugins kgpg kipi-plugins kjots kleopatra
  kmail kmymoney knode knotes konsolekalendar kontact konversation kopete korganizer krename krfb
  libasprintf0c2 libbaloowidgets4 libboost-date-time1.55.0 libcalendarsupport4 libcmis-0.5-5 libcwidget3
  libebml4 libept1.4.12 libeventviews4 libffado-dev libffado2 libflac++6 libglibmm-2.4-1c2a
  libgltf-0.0-0 libincidenceeditorsng4 libjsoncpp0 libkdepim4 libkdepimdbusinterfaces4
  libkf5filemetadata-bin libkfilemetadata4 libkolab0 libkolabxml1 libkopete4 libkpeople4 libksieveui4
  libktpcommoninternalsprivate8 libktpmodelsprivate8 libktpwidgetsprivate8 libmailcommon4
  libmailimporter4 libmatroska6 libmessagecomposer4 libmessagecore4 libmessagelist4 libmessageviewer4
  libnoteshared4 liborcus-0.10-0 libpcrecpp0 libpimcommon4 libprojectm2 libprotobuf9 libproxy1 libqpdf13
  libreoffice-style-crystal libsidplay1 libsigc++-2.0-0c2a libsigc++-2.0-0c2a:i386 libstreamanalyzer0
  libstreams0 libstrigihtmlgui0 libtag1-vanilla libtag1c2a libtemplateparser4 libxapian22 packagesearch
  plasma-dataengines-workspace plasma-scriptengine-python plasma-widgets-workspace python-kde4
  python3-pykde4 showfoto sozi strigi-client

512 upgraded, 47 newly installed, 99 to remove and 4 not upgraded.

vinur - 15.08.2015, 02:59
Post subject: RE: d-u wtih no problems
Something of a status report, Although I did not D-U, I read the list.
It was 295 to remove, 17 new and 295 to upgrade.
It was coincedental, I think, on the numbers as it seemed like it was a different list to upgrade than to remove.

So I did not do it. I was just looking.
slh - 15.08.2015, 03:28
Post subject: RE: d-u wtih no problems
Even if upgrading KDE based systems, with some nudging, has started to become technically possible, there are still a couple of bugs which spoil the fun to an extent you certainly don't want to bear.

So do yourself a favour and don't upgrade KDE based installations before the all-clear.
slh - 22.08.2015, 20:19
Post subject: RE: d-u wtih no problems
It's a bit early to officially call it "green lights", but I'd venture to call it "yellow lights with shades of green" (or Grünpfeil in the german StVO).

While it strongly depends on which packages you have installed - and which of those you care about, many regular systems should be upgradable with some handholding for apt (as the dependency cycles still aren't quite well).
# apt update
# apt-get dist-upgrade libstreamanalyzer0v5+ libstreams0v5+ libstreams0- kdeutils+ kdeadmin+ konversation+

Even with that assistance, you'll need to be very careful and cross-check what apt wants to remove - don't expect to be able to reinstall whatever bites the dust anytime soon. So if apt wants to remove any non-library packages (you care about), give it some more time!
vinur - 01.09.2015, 03:16
Post subject: RE: d-u wtih some problems
Well I bit the bullet as they say and did the up grade via the standard method.
(slh code for apt) I have implemented the suggested code found above now.

This is cautionary – yes I upgraded and this report is perhaps just a survival note. More time required as true functionality is slow to return.

KDE RUNS (sort of), with big cautions - Dolphin, the file manager, is gone for a while.
Can't explain it, as the system is partially functional and does have a GUI that does run.

The system, from about 2 weeks and a few days, was without a truly running KDE GUI. It would get mostly through the initialization stage and then just sit there – forever.
I would restart the system, select fluxbox at the log-on, and that ran just fine. Fluxbox runs well as well as all of the applications I use. So I was using that as the backup GUI system with some distress - as I really prefer KDE with plasma. I may still use fluxbox until KDE becomes fully functional again.

So Far, as of tonight, I am running post DU and KDE Plasma 5. It did light up as operational again with the big cautions, as it seems to be running weirdly. I would use extreme caution on your DU.

This is the upgrade statistics; 229 to remove, 1 (I think was held back)
something like 17 new to install.
And 689 to upgrade. A second DU with also the slh code as well has brought in a lot of missing components. lots of libs.

I read the list and saw a lot of the important aspects of KDE was back in the upgrade list.

So, I just did it – about an hour later, whats gone is still being discovered. Use care.

BlueGriffon which I depend on, in aptosid, runs fine. I will find out more as I use the system.

Even Google Earth 7.1 beta looks as though it might run, with a little coaxing, ( it was always problematic in Debian ) sometimes it does and sometimes it does not, run.

However, for the most part, I am back in the saddle again, with partial KDE system that now will launch. A system that although is running some applications, is not running others, as was cautioned by slh. Its very hard to describe, what works, works well. What is gone, is just missing.

So, it is, in fact - mostly running. And is not, as yet, crashing at all.

Use a lot of caution. Dolphin is missing - and that is the proper file manager.

Hope the D-U sticks - And I can retrieve or reinstall what seems to be missing.

I really can not tell what is not there yet, as the KDE plasma system is, only partially available.

I spell check this info out of the browser, in LibreOffice 5 writer and export it to the browser, so spell checking is partially gone.

I would hold off for a while until more time goes by.[/b]
vinur - 01.09.2015, 18:19
Post subject: RE: d-u wtih some problems
Greetings all,
What I should say is that I have a certain confidence in doing some upgrades which may seem to be risky.
The reason is simple. The system being upgraded is no longer being depended upon completely.
It is, as a system, shared on the same computer but with a functional conservative system with a stable Linux installed.

Aspects of the computer can be lost for a while now and it is not critical to me that its functional presence be depended upon.

So if I sound cavalier and reckless, its not exactly so.

The aptosid system is very important, however, it is being set into experimental mode until it becomes once again reliable.

It continues to function in-spite of what some would describe as a disaster.

I always have a functional backup, and I always make sure that these are never in the same hard drive even if the computer is common amongst them.

Basically I never allow myself to actually be at risk. So If you are not as backup-ed, use a lot of care, it is just not prudent to fly solo in a hurricane without a good parachute. Thats a joke, but seriously, don't just jump into a frying pan without some prudent precations.
vinur - 03.09.2015, 00:34
Post subject: RE: d-u wtih some problems
Greetings All,
A few days since the last update. Although there are some still missing components of KDE which are still missing I have reinstalled Dolphin (the file manager) and much functionality is back.
What works, as before - Works well.
I am bringing back the e-mail files ( When this all started, I migrated them to the safe system for protection, a Linux Mint 17 – KDE – its OK for a general purpose Linux desktop system and has itself shown much improvement. However, make no mistake though, its no aptosid. )
I will try to live with the aptosid system and observe its behavior.

So why do I use aptosid, when I can mostly get calm predictable behavior out of a generic Linux?

Configurable and powerful aptosid will run many applications that an Ubuntu based distro, which is what Linux Mint 17 is, can not be made to work at all. Little things are annoying. Like missing thumbs for .ODF files. Or that BlueGriffon 1.7.2 will not actually run even with all of the dependency’s that can be discovered being accounted for.

aptosid rocks - yes it is sometimes a surprise - but freedom and capabilities above normal is worth fighting for.

I am on the path of full recovery now and it is getting better.
I still advise some serious caution – but even so it is getting better.
vinur - 09.09.2015, 19:39
Post subject: RE: d-u wtih some problems
I would advise to not DU, apt wants to remove Plasma-desktop, today.
I would say that the general situation is still very unstable even if some hours it seems OK and might work some hours later something wants to remove some KDE element nessassary to have a desktop.
slh - 09.09.2015, 21:37
Post subject: RE: d-u wtih some problems
There is a significant qualitative difference here. The g++-5/ libstdc++6 transition is indeed mostly through (at least for the most common packages), thanks to the work of Debian's KDE team pretty much all of KDE5 has been fast tracked through (except for calligra (née koffice) and digikam).

What you see e.g. today is "just" a normal version upgrade which temporarily waits for depending packages to catch up - or in other words "business as usual in Debian/unstable".
vinur - 10.09.2015, 05:20
Post subject: RE: d-u wtih some problems
That is what I see now. Thank you, slh.
I waited a few more hours and see the difference in the Que for apt
My usual path is to read what Apt has and actually compare the list of what is coming in to what is going out.
I just noticed that plasma-desktop was out going and there was no corresponding incoming with a higher version number.
so I wait... It is normal ( lots of change ) going on.
Tonight looks much better than this morning, its not really all that different than the usual precautions.

I guess I am just a little bit jumpy. - All is well.
albertinus - 10.09.2015, 06:28
Post subject: RE: d-u wtih some problems

Dist-upgrade wants to remove Gimp...
Can I reinstall it later?

(morituri te salutant?)
finotti - 10.09.2015, 16:14
Post subject: Re: RE: d-u wtih some problems
      slh wrote:
There is a significant qualitative difference here. The g++-5/ libstdc++6 transition is indeed mostly through (at least for the most common packages), thanks to the work of Debian's KDE team pretty much all of KDE5 has been fast tracked through (except for calligra (née koffice) and digikam).

What you see e.g. today is "just" a normal version upgrade which temporarily waits for depending packages to catch up - or in other words "business as usual in Debian/unstable".

Thanks for the update. I'm thinking of taking the plunge with my laptop, which I'm using to test the updates before I update my critical machines.

It shows:

The following packages will be REMOVED:
  coinor-libcbc3 coinor-libcoinmp1 coinor-libcoinutils3 coinor-libosi1 digikam
  digikam-private-libs gimp gimp-plugin-registry grip libasprintf0c2 libatkmm-1.6-1
  libbinio1ldbl libboost-date-time1.54.0 libboost-date-time1.55.0 libbt0 libcairomm-1.0-1
  libclucene-contribs1 libclucene-core1 libcmis-0.3-3 libcmis-0.4-4 libcmis-0.5-5 libcwidget3
  libebml4 libept1.4.12 libffmpegthumbnailer4 libflac++6 libgconfmm-2.6-1c2 libgegl-0.2-0
  libglademm-2.4-1c2a libglibmm-2.4-1c2a libgltf-0.0-0 libgpgme++2 libgtkmm-2.4-1c2a
  libgtkmm-3.0-1 libid3-3.8.3c2a libilmbase6 libkdecorations2-5 libkdecorations2private5
  libkf5baloo1 libkf5balooxapian1 libkf5bluezqt5 libkolab0 libkolabxml1 libllvm3.5
  libllvm3.5:i386 libmagick++-6.q16-5 libmatroska6 libmovit2 libmsn0.3 libopencv-calib3d2.3
  libopencv-calib3d2.4 libopencv-contrib2.3 libopencv-contrib2.4 libopencv-core2.4
  libopencv-features2d2.3 libopencv-features2d2.4 libopencv-flann2.4 libopencv-highgui2.3
  libopencv-highgui2.4 libopencv-imgproc2.4 libopencv-legacy2.3 libopencv-legacy2.4
  libopencv-ml2.4 libopencv-objdetect2.3 libopencv-objdetect2.4 libopencv-video2.4
  libopenexr6 liborcus-0.10-0 libpangomm-1.4-1 libpodofo0.9.0 libproxy1 libqalculate5
  libqmmp-misc libqpdf13 libsidplay1 libsidplayfp3 libsigc++-2.0-0c2a libsigc++-2.0-0c2a:i386
  libsmokebase3 libstreamanalyzer0 libstreams0 libtag1-vanilla libtag1c2a libtinyxml2.6.2
  libvamp-hostsdk3 libwxbase3.0-0 libwxgtk3.0-0 libxapian22 libzlcore0.12 libzltext0.12
The following NEW packages will be installed:
  coinor-libcoinutils3v5 coinor-libosi1v5 cpp-5 distro-info-data g++-5 gcc-5 gfortran-5
  ieee-data kate5-data kde-style-oxygen-qt4 ktexteditor-katepart libapt-inst1.7
  libapt-pkg4.16 libasan2 libasprintf0v5 libatkmm-1.6-1v5 libbabeltrace-ctf1 libbabeltrace1
  libbasicusageenvironment1 libbinio1v5 libboost-date-time1.58.0 libboost-iostreams1.58.0
  libboost-program-options1.58.0 libboost-system1.58.0 libboost-thread1.58.0 libbt0v5
  libcairomm-1.0-1v5 libcc1-0 libclucene-contribs1v5 libclucene-core1v5 libcmis-0.5-5v5
  libcwidget3v5 libebml4v5 libexiv2-14 libffmpegthumbnailer4v5 libflac++6v5 libgcc-5-dev
  libgconfmm-2.6-1v5 libgfortran-5-dev libgit2-23 libglademm-2.4-1v5 libglibmm-2.4-1v5
  libgltf-0.0-0v5 libgpgme++2v5 libgroupsock7 libgtkmm-2.4-1v5 libgtkmm-3.0-1v5 libicu55
  libicu55:i386 libid3-3.8.3v5 libilmbase6v5 libkdecorations2-5v5 libkdecorations2private5v5
  libkf5baloo5 libkf5balooengine5 libkf5bluezqt6 libkf5itemmodels5 libkolab0v5 libkolabxml1v5
  liblivemedia49 libllvm3.5v5 libllvm3.5v5:i386 liblmdb0 liblz4-1 libmagick++-6.q16-5v5
  libmatroska6v5 libmovit2v5 libmpx0 libmsn0.3v5 libmusicbrainz5cc2v5 libnpth0 libokularcore6
  libopencv-calib3d2.4v5 libopencv-contrib2.4v5 libopencv-core2.4v5 libopencv-features2d2.4v5
  libopencv-flann2.4v5 libopencv-gpu2.4v5 libopencv-highgui2.4v5 libopencv-imgproc2.4v5
  libopencv-legacy2.4v5 libopencv-ml2.4v5 libopencv-objdetect2.4v5 libopencv-ocl2.4v5
  libopencv-photo2.4v5 libopencv-stitching2.4v5 libopencv-superres2.4v5 libopencv-ts2.4v5
  libopencv-video2.4v5 libopencv-videostab2.4v5 libopenexr6v5 liborcus-0.10-0v5
  libossp-uuid-perl libossp-uuid16 libpangomm-1.4-1v5 libpodofo0.9.0v5 libproxy1v5
  libqalculate5v5 libqca-qt5-2 libqpdf13v5 libsane-bin libsctp1 libsidplay1v5 libsidplayfp4
  libsigc++-2.0-0v5 libsmokebase3v5 libstdc++-5-dev libstreamanalyzer0v5 libstreams0v5
  libtag1v5 libtag1v5-vanilla libtinyxml2.6.2v5 libusageenvironment3 libvamp-hostsdk3v5
  libwxbase3.0-0v5 libwxgtk3.0-0v5 libxapian22v5 libzlcore0.13 libzltext0.13
  linux-headers-4.2.0-0.slh.2-aptosid-amd64 linux-image-4.2.0-0.slh.2-aptosid-amd64
  phonon4qt5 phonon4qt5-backend-vlc python-funcsigs scribus-data t1utils
The following packages will be upgraded:
  acpi-support-base acpid acpitool akonadi-backend-sqlite akonadi-server akregator amarok
  amarok-utils apt apt-utils aptitude aptitude-common aptosid-archive-keyring aptosid-irc
  aptosid-manual-common aptosid-manual-en aptosid-scripts arandr ark audacious
  audacious-plugins audacious-plugins-data audacity audacity-data avidemux-common
  avidemux-plugins avidemux-qt base-files bash bash-completion bash-doc bbpager bind9-host
  binutils bluedevil bluetooth bluez bluez-obexd breeze breeze-cursor-theme breeze-icon-theme
  bsdutils build-essential calibre-bin cdebootstrap cdrdao ceni chromium chromium-l10n
  cinelerra cinelerra-data cinelerra-doc coinor-libcgl1 coinor-libclp1 configure-cups
  console-setup console-setup-linux cpp cpp-4.9 cups-filters cups-filters-core-drivers curl
  debhelper debtags dh-python dictionaries-common diffstat distro-defaults djvulibre-bin
  djvulibre-desktop dmeventd dmsetup dnsutils dosfstools dpkg dpkg-dev dselect dvd+rw-tools
  easytag evolution-data-server-common extlinux fancontrol fbreader ffmpeg ffmpegthumbnailer
  file filezilla filezilla-common firmware-linux-free flac flashplugin-nonfree fluxbox
  fonts-lyx fonts-opensymbol fonts-oxygen foomatic-db frameworkintegration freespacenotifier
  frei0r-plugins frozen-bubble frozen-bubble-data g++ g++-4.9 gcc gcc-4.9 gcc-4.9-base
  gcc-4.9-base:i386 gcc-5-base gcc-5-base:i386 gdb gdbserver gdisk gettext gettext-base
  gfortran gfortran-4.9 ghostscript ghostscript-x gimp-help-common gimp-help-en git git-man
  glib-networking glib-networking-services gnucap gnumeric gnumeric-common gnumeric-doc
  gnumeric-plugins-extra gnupg gnupg-agent gnupg2 gparted gpgv growisofs grub-common grub-pc
  grub-pc-bin grub2 grub2-common gscan2pdf gsmartcontrol gstreamer0.10-gconf
  gstreamer0.10-plugins-good gstreamer0.10-plugins-ugly gstreamer0.10-pulseaudio
  gstreamer1.0-plugins-bad gstreamer1.0-plugins-good gstreamer1.0-plugins-ugly
  gstreamer1.0-pulseaudio gvfs gvfs:i386 gvfs-common gvfs-daemons gvfs-libs gvfs-libs:i386
  gwenview handbrake handbrake-gtk hostname html2text icedove id3v2 imagemagick
  imagemagick-6.q16 imagemagick-common imagemagick-doc inkscape iproute iproute2
  isc-dhcp-client isc-dhcp-common iso-codes istanbul jmtpfs k3b k4dirstat kactivities kalarm
  kate kate-data katepart kbuild kcalc kcharselect kde-cli-tools kde-cli-tools-data
  kde-config-cron kde-config-gtk-style kde-config-sddm kde-config-touchpad kde-plasma-desktop
  kde-runtime kde-runtime-data kde-style-breeze kde-style-breeze-qt4 kde-style-oxygen
  kde-style-oxygen-qt5 kde-touchpad kde-wallpapers-default kde-workspace-kgreet-plugins
  kdeadmin kdebase-runtime kded5 kdegames-card-data kdegames-mahjongg-data
  kdegraphics-libs-data kdelibs-bin kdelibs5-data kdelibs5-dev kdelibs5-plugins kdenlive
  kdenlive-data kdepim-kresources kdepim-runtime kdepimlibs-kio-plugins kdeplasma-addons-data
  kdiff3 kdoctools kdoctools5 kernel-remover keyboard-configuration kget kgpg khelpcenter
  khelpcenter4 khotkeys khotkeys-data kinfocenter kinit kio kio-extras kio-extras-data
  klibc-utils kmail kmenuedit kmix konsole konsole-kpart konversation konversation-data
  kopete kpackagetool5 krename kross kscreen ksshaskpass ksysguard ksysguard-data ksysguardd
  ktexteditor-data ktorrent ktorrent-data ktouchpadenabler kwalletmanager kwin-common
  kwin-data kwin-style-breeze kwin-x11 kwrite kwrited ladspa-sdk lib32gcc1 lib32ncurses5
  lib32stdc++6 lib32tinfo5 libakonadi-calendar4 libakonadi-contact4 libakonadi-kabc4
  libakonadi-kcal4 libakonadi-kde4 libakonadi-kmime4 libakonadi-notes4
  libakonadiprotocolinternals1 libapr1 libapt-pkg-perl libasan1 libasound2-plugins
  libasound2-plugins:i386 libasprintf-dev libassuan0 libatk-wrapper-java
  libatk-wrapper-java-jni libatomic1 libattica0.4 libaudcore3 libaudit-common libaudit1
  libavcodec-ffmpeg56 libavcodec-ffmpeg56:i386 libavcodec56 libavcodec56:i386 libavdevice56
  libavfilter5 libavformat-ffmpeg56 libavformat56 libavresample-ffmpeg2
  libavresample-ffmpeg2:i386 libavresample2 libavresample2:i386 libavutil-ffmpeg54
  libavutil-ffmpeg54:i386 libavutil54 libavutil54:i386 libbaloocore4 libbaloofiles4
  libbaloopim4 libbalooqueryparser4 libbaloowidgets4 libbalooxapian4 libbind9-90 libblkid1
  libbluedevil2 libbluetooth3 libburn4 libcalendarsupport4 libcap2 libcap2:i386 libcap2-bin
  libccid libcdr-0.1-1 libchromaprint0 libcilkrts5 libcolord2 libcompress-bzip2-perl
  libconfig-general-perl libconfig-inifiles-perl libconfig9 libcrystalhd3 libcrystalhd3:i386
  libcupsfilters-dev libcupsfilters1 libcurl3 libcurl3-gnutls libcurl3-nss libdb5.3
  libdb5.3:i386 libdevmapper-event1.02.1 libdevmapper1.02.1 libdjvulibre-text libdjvulibre21
  libdlrestrictions1 libdnet libdns-export100 libdns100 libdpkg-perl libdrm-intel1
  libdrm-intel1:i386 libdrm-nouveau2 libdrm-nouveau2:i386 libdrm-radeon1 libdrm-radeon1:i386
  libdrm2 libdrm2:i386 libdvdnav4 libdvdread4 libegl1-mesa libegl1-mesa:i386 libelf1
  libelf1:i386 libepoxy0 liberror-perl libevdev2 libexempi3 libfam0 libfdisk1 libflac8
  libflac8:i386 libfollowupreminder4 libfont-ttf-perl libfontembed1 libfreerdp-cache1.1
  libfreerdp-client1.1 libfreerdp-codec1.1 libfreerdp-common1.1.0 libfreerdp-core1.1
  libfreerdp-crypto1.1 libfreerdp-gdi1.1 libfreerdp-locale1.1 libfreerdp-primitives1.1
  libfreerdp-utils1.1 libfribidi0 libgadu3 libgbm1 libgbm1:i386 libgcc-4.9-dev libgcc1
  libgcc1:i386 libgcj-common libgcj15 libgeoip1 libgettextpo-dev libgettextpo0
  libgfortran-4.9-dev libgfortran3 libgl1-mesa-dri libgl1-mesa-dri:i386 libgl1-mesa-glx
  libgl1-mesa-glx:i386 libglapi-mesa libglapi-mesa:i386 libgles2-mesa libgnutls-deb0-28
  libgnutls-deb0-28:i386 libgnutls-openssl27 libgoffice-0.10-10 libgoffice-0.10-10-common
  libgomp1 libgomp1:i386 libgoocanvas-common libgoocanvas3 libgpg-error-dev libgpg-error0
  libgpg-error0:i386 libgrantlee-core0 libgrantlee-gui0 libgraphicsmagick3 libgs9
  libgs9-common libgsf-1-114 libgsf-1-common libgstreamer-plugins-bad1.0-0 libharfbuzz-icu0
  libharfbuzz0b libharfbuzz0b:i386 libhogweed4 libhogweed4:i386 libhunspell-1.3-0 libical1a
  libidn11 libidn11:i386 libijs-0.35 libimage-magick-perl libimage-magick-q16-perl
  libincidenceeditorsng4 libinput10 libio-socket-ssl-perl libio-stty-perl libirs-export91
  libisc-export95 libisc95 libisccc90 libisccfg-export90 libisccfg90 libisofs6 libitm1
  libjack-jackd2-0 libjack-jackd2-0:i386 libjavascriptcoregtk-4.0-18 libjbig2dec0 libjpeg-dev
  libjpeg-turbo-progs libjpeg62-turbo libjpeg62-turbo:i386 libjpeg62-turbo-dev libjs-jquery
  libjs-sphinxdoc libk3b6 libk3b6-extracodecs libkabc4 libkalarmcal2 libkate1
  libkateinterfaces4 libkatepartinterfaces4 libkblog4 libkcal4 libkcalcore4 libkcalutils4
  libkcddb4 libkcmutils4 libkcompactdisc4 libkdcraw-data libkdcraw23 libkde3support4
  libkdeclarative5 libkdecorations4abi2 libkdecore5 libkdegames6abi1 libkdegamesprivate1abi1
  libkdepim4 libkdepimdbusinterfaces4 libkdesu5 libkdeui5 libkdewebkit5 libkdgantt2-0
  libkdnssd4 libkemoticons4 libkephal4abi1 libkexiv2-11 libkexiv2-data libkeyutils1
  libkeyutils1:i386 libkf5activities5 libkf5activitiesexperimentalstats1 libkf5archive5
  libkf5attica5 libkf5auth-data libkf5auth5 libkf5bluezqt-data libkf5bookmarks-data
  libkf5bookmarks5 libkf5codecs-data libkf5codecs5 libkf5completion-data libkf5completion5
  libkf5config-bin libkf5config-data libkf5configcore5 libkf5configgui5
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1276 upgraded, 126 newly installed, 90 to remove and 0 not upgraded.
Need to get 0 B/2,294 MB of archives.
After this operation, 690 MB of additional disk space will be used.
Download complete and in download only mode

I don't use digikam and can let gimp go for now. The rest doesn't seem important, so I assume I can let go.

Do we need to still use the tailored update command above, i.e.,


# apt update
# apt-get dist-upgrade libstreamanalyzer0v5+ libstreams0v5+ libstreams0- kdeutils+ kdeadmin+ konversation+

or simply an usual DU?


BT - 11.09.2015, 18:46
Post subject: RE: Re: RE: d-u wtih some problems

I'm getting the following message for a few days when simulating a dist-upgrade.


The following packages have unmet dependencies:
 plasma-desktop-data : Breaks: kde-config-touchpad (< 4:5) but 0.8.1-2 is to be installed
E: Error, pkgProblemResolver::Resolve generated breaks, this may be caused by held packages.

How can I get around this one ?

finotti - 11.09.2015, 18:48
Post subject: RE: Re: RE: d-u wtih some problems
For what is worth, I've used the DU command suggested by slh and the upgrade went smoothly. Everything seems to be working so far. (Note that some KDE related packages are now, after my DU, marked for removal, such as plasma-scriptengines and plasma-widgets-workspace. I haven't DUed after that.)

I was hoping more from Plasma 5 would be fixed with this update, but my main problems seem to remain. But that's the price of being on the "cutting edge".

Thanks to all,

BT - 12.09.2015, 08:11
Post subject: RE: Re: RE: d-u wtih some problems
Tried slh's DU command, but no luck.

Shall be patient a few more weeks, problem shall perhaps clear itself

vinur - 19.09.2015, 01:35
Post subject: RE: Re: RE: d-u wtih some problems
Well, I have done about 4 Distro Upgrades in the last 4 days, including this morning And the results have but merely improved the total performance and caused no issues.

Now it would be wise to note that this is after the big wave of changes which the system survived.
It is no longer the same as it was which is what was expected.

All I am reporting is the period post Plasma 4 to Plasma 5 seems for my system is going along fine.
Some functionality is gone and such is how it will be until it returns.

michael@Eyland0:~$ infobash -v3
Host/Kernel/OS  "Eyland0" running Linux 4.2.0-0.slh.4-aptosid-amd64 x86_64 [ aptosid 2013-01 Ἑσπερίδες - kde-lite - (201305050307) ]
CPU Info        8x AMD FX-8120 Eight-Core 2048 KB cache flags( sse3 ht nx lm svm ) clocked at [ 1900.000 MHz ]
Videocard       NVIDIA G86 [GeForce 8500 GT]  X.Org 1.17.2  [ 1920x1080@60.00hz ]
Network cards   D-Link System Inc DGE-560T PCI Express Gigabit
Processes 169 | Uptime 6:30 | Memory 717.9/7971.6MB | HDD WDC WD6000HLHX-0,WDC WD6000HLHX-0,AS2105 Size 1520GB (13%used) | GLX Renderer
Gallium 0.4 on NV86 | GLX Version Yes | Client Shell | Infobash v3.49

This system at least seem to be fine. And for me D-U is good.
I do not want to mislead, your results can be... and may well be, very different.
slh - 19.09.2015, 01:41
Post subject: RE: Re: RE: d-u wtih some problems
It should work (KDE5 itself does, not everything is as mature as in KDE4, but it won't eat kittens for breakfast), but you might have to assist apt to find a proper solution (this is not an apt bug. but rather imperfect package relations - those will be fixed over time, but it might take quite a while).

On common systems, you might still have problems with e.g. calligra (ex-koffice), digikam and kipi-plugins, as those are still not through the gcc-5 transition (of course there are more packages affected than just these, but they are less common) - so you'll have to let them go for the time being (the KDE team is working on it, but some lower level libraries need to transition first - so no ETA).
alexk - 19.09.2015, 03:35
Post subject: RE: Re: RE: d-u wtih some problems
No big upgrade problems here in the last 2 weeks, let a few more unneeded packages go and managing without Digikam.
      BT wrote:
plasma-desktop-data : Breaks: kde-config-touchpad (< 4:5) but 0.8.1-2 is to be installed

apt-get purge kde-config-touchpad

apt-cache show kde-config-touchpad     
Package: kde-config-touchpad
Source: plasma-desktop
Version: 4:5.4.1-1
Installed-Size: 54
Maintainer: Debian/Kubuntu Qt/KDE Maintainers <debian>
Architecture: all
Depends: plasma-desktop
Description-en: transitional dummy package
 This is a transitional dummy package. It can safely be removed.

snvv - 15.10.2015, 23:17
Post subject: RE: Re: RE: d-u wtih some problems
Is there any news about the KDE upgrade?
Currently I update the system with upgrade and not dist-upgrade and I am thinking to install another desktop.
Any suggestions of how to proceed.
There are many months since the last propped DU and I am afraid we may face security problems.
slh - 18.10.2015, 18:43
Post subject: RE: Re: RE: d-u wtih some problems
I really don't understand this question. Upgrading is possible for a couple of weeks now (except for digikam, kipi-plugins and calligra/ koffice, neither of these will be fixed soon) and mostly works, even though KDE5 stills has a couple of rough corners.
vinur - 18.10.2015, 20:41
Post subject: RE: Re: RE: d-u wtih some problems
Well for what it is worth.
I have been doing full D-U for weeks now. No issues beyond what slh says.

snvv - 23.10.2015, 16:15
Post subject: RE: Re: RE: d-u wtih some problems
Ok I dist-upgrade
Only serious problem is sddm does not shout down the system. I have to go in command line and issue shutdown -h now.

Second, less serious problem I don’t like sddm Smile I would like the KDM back

Third I have to familiarize myself with the "new" environment.

Otherwise everyting else seems to work.

Thank you for remind me to DU.
manul - 23.10.2015, 17:52
Post subject: Re: RE: Re: RE: d-u wtih some problems
      snvv wrote:
Ok I dist-upgrade
Only serious problem is sddm does not shout down the system. I have to go in command line and issue shutdown -h now

Use kdm, it works.
slh - 23.10.2015, 18:27
Post subject: RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: d-u wtih some problems
kdm is not going to be an option any longer.

Upstream development of kdm has ceased quite some time ago, so there are no bugfixes or adaptions (nor a port to qt5!) to be expected anymore. Even worse, kdm in Debian currently has no integration into systemd (it doesn't ship a systemd unit == a systemd specific start 'script'), but systemd requires this from any display manager these days (Debian jessie had a specical compatibility modus, quite a lot of code and effort (and very fragile, borderline broken), to keep unit-less displaymanagers working - and kdm was pretty much the only displaymanager in jessie without systemd support. Considering that there is no upstream development for kdm anymore and taking into account that the kdm sysv initscript had quite some Debian-specific (related to theming and other things) workarounds (generating kdm.conf on the fly, based on input from /etc/default/kdm, etc.), writing a systemd unit for kdm that supports upgrades on systems using these workarounds is far from trivial and the statement of the Debian KDE maintainers is that they won't spend their time on this (which is perfectly understandable).

So no, kdm is no longer a supportable option - and any problems in sddm should be fixed there, instead of falling back to kdm. In the worst case, take a look at lightdm-kde or some other (upstream- and Debian-)supported displaymanager, but not kdm.
manul - 23.10.2015, 20:36
Post subject: RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: d-u wtih some problems
slh & snvv:

Ok I purged kdm and installed lightdm instead.
But lightdm cannot shutdown and reboot too?

After a lot of struggle, I found this somewhat ugly solution: http://winaero.com/blog/how-to-enable-s ... an-jessie/

I followed instructions as per the link - and now lightdm can shutdown/reboot. Pretty sure it will "fix" sddm too.

To all:

1) Does anyone know what is the proper way to override these policies in /etc (instead of ugly editing in /usr which will probably get lost when polkit-1 gets updated/reinstalled)?

2) Is there an UI for editing these policies?

3) Is there a way so I allow these actions only to specific users (i.e. lightdm, my user account) as opposed to generally switching to "yes"?

Thanks in advance for the help.

vinur - 23.10.2015, 22:12
Post subject: RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: d-u wtih some problems
I performed a routine D-U a day ago and the Plasma desktop, for lack of a better term, went away again.
The system itself is somewhat usable with "fluxbox" a backup GUI
And this is important in the land of the unstable, I do have a seperate hard drive in the system with Linux Mint 17.x-(2 ?)KDE which I run to when very much loved aptosid falls down... I hang onto aptosid because it is good, very good. Some applications I use run well in it like bluegriffon 1.7 which by the way will not run in Mint.
I have this ambiguity towards sddm. it may be the future but is it any good - if it is causing such user issues.
KDM is out of life, KDE itself is in a revolution of changing. Plasma 5 behaves like it really is a plasma gas and is elusive in stability. This is a hard spot on a course of the future here, and really aptosid is a out front distro so I am not dissapointed by any means (hot and Spicy) but these are hard times with user interfaces for linux in general going through all of the revolution in parallel with other revolutions of linux internals being dynamically in flux.
I am speaking in really general terms because to try and list all of the specific points of what is changing out of sync with all that is dependent upon all of it to work, is a bit futile. I seem to like the front set of the big bad rollercoaster.

next day edit (see: Plasma stopped working after d-u (fixed by libqt5xcbqpa5)

did not do that exactly as I had that lib.
I noticed that I had libqt5xcbqpa5 but no Plasma - I tried to apt-get to reinstall but something else seemed wrong with what it wanted to remove if I was to reinstall it. just remove permenently...
Lots of things kde5 related. So after a day, I got brave again and went to apt-get after apt update was completed.
I typed in apt-get install kde-full and a lot of applications wanted to both get removed and installed, all seemingly related to KDE.
only 4 new applications other that the large list and nothing about removal without a replacement. it was a matching list.
so i did it - after a complete reboot KDE plasma was back and at this time all seems as it was before.
Plasma 5 is back... don't quite know what it meant but there it is.
all works as far as I can see.
snvv - 26.10.2015, 23:03
Post subject: Re: RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: d-u wtih some problems
      slh wrote:

In the worst case, take a look at lightdm-kde or some other (upstream- and Debian-)supported displaymanager, but not kdm.

Hello slh
I installed lightdm but the problem remains. Thus, this seems to be a more generic problem hardly relayted just to sddm.
snvv - 26.10.2015, 23:14
Post subject: RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: d-u wtih some problems
vinur, you had to reistall just plasma-desktop to get KDE back, but there are so many problems there Sad
manul - 27.10.2015, 15:10
Post subject: Re: RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: d-u wtih some problems
      snvv wrote:

I installed lightdm but the problem remains. Thus, this seems to be a more generic problem hardly relayted just to sddm.

snvv, check my previous post - the link to "no reboot/shutdown/suspend problem" solution for login managers (lightdm, sddm) is there.

Alternatively, if you do not want to change the global policykit policies in /usr (which is temporary fix anyway as these will be overwritten on next policykit upgrade), for "local override approach" you may add/create the a config file as follows
root@hpsiddie:/home/manul# cat /etc/polkit-1/rules.d/60-noreboot_norestart.rules
polkit.addRule(function(action, subject) {
    if (action.id == "org.freedesktop.login1.reboot" ||
        action.id == "org.freedesktop.login1.reboot-multiple-sessions" ||
        action.id == "org.freedesktop.login1.power-off" ||
        action.id == "org.freedesktop.login1.power-off-multiple-sessions" ||
        action.id == "org.freedesktop.login1.suspend" ||
        action.id == "org.freedesktop.login1.suspend-multiple-sessions" ||
        action.id == "org.freedesktop.login1.hibernate" ||
        action.id == "org.freedesktop.login1.hibernate-multiple-sessions") {

        // log requests
        polkit.log("action=" + action);
        polkit.log("subject=" + subject);

        if (subject.isInGroup("power") ||
            subject.user == "lightdm"  ||
            subject.user == "kdm"  ||
            subject.user == "sddm"  ||
            subject.user == "manul") {

            polkit.log("Returned YES for subject=" + subject + " requesting action=" + action);
            return polkit.Result.YES;
        } else {
            return polkit.Result.AUTH_ADMIN_KEEP;

For the above alternative "local config override" approach to work, you need to upgrade package policykit-1 to the version from experimental.
"manul" inside the javascript code above is my local username; you should change it to yours.
snvv - 27.10.2015, 17:46
Post subject: RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: d-u wtih some problems
Hello manul
I read your post later. I followed the global way and the problem was solved.
However, I prefer your local solution and I am going to try it.
Thank you.
slh - 05.11.2015, 02:04
Post subject: RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: d-u wtih some problems
The display manager, in particular sddm, not being able to shutdown the system sounds a lot like sysvinit being used instead of systemd. These days sysvinit is no longer an option in Debian, even less for the higher level desktop environments that expect systemd to deal with access credentials (based on policies set by polkit).

But please, start a new thread with one single dedicated topic that can actually be debugged and solved, rather than sticking to this meta thread, which is more and more becoming a mess of completely orthogonal issues that only loosely revolve around KDE.
manul - 06.11.2015, 03:40
Post subject: RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: d-u wtih some problems
slh: with me switching between systemd/sysvinit did not solve the issue at the time.
My apt is set not to install recommended and suggested packages though, not sure if this is related.
snvv - 06.11.2015, 13:50
Post subject: RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: d-u wtih some problems
slh is correct. Using systemd resolved my shutdown problems.
ruebe99 - 06.11.2015, 21:34
Post subject: RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: d-u wtih some problems
Did some of you try to install aptosid using the latest iso (guess its 2 years old) ?
heidieboe - 08.11.2015, 20:21
Post subject: RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: d-u wtih some problems
Yes, I did today with a spare disk on a DELL Latitude 4300, just for the fun of it Smile
No major problems. Just a few "apt-get -f install"s and regular "apt-get dist-upgrade"s interspersed.

And then, of course, a big cleanup via "deborpan", selection of sddm as display-manager, and a "apt-get install kde-standard".
In between I installed lxde as a fallback.
finotti - 09.11.2015, 10:58
Post subject: RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: d-u wtih some problems
@heidieboe: which ISO did you use? I tried that myself and could not finish the upgrade... (See http://www.aptosid.com/index.php?name=PNphpBB2&file=viewtopic&t=2913&highlight=)
heidieboe - 09.11.2015, 12:45
Post subject: RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: d-u wtih some problems
KDE-lite i686 installing from a USB-Stick onto a real machine, not a virtual one.

Still, it would be much nicer to start from a more up to date ISO. It's been quite a detour to arrive at a working aptosid and the final installation probably does not contain much of the original software contained in the ISO.
finotti - 09.11.2015, 19:23
Post subject: RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: d-u wtih some problems
Thanks, heidieboe! I've just done a fresh install of the XFCE and installed kde-full. Plasma is not working, but I think it is because it is inside a VB virtual machine, since I had the same problem with siduction (Plasma crashed in a VM, but worked on a real computer).
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