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piperOffline
Post subject:   PostPosted: 14.09.2011, 17:46
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      towo wrote:
      hubi wrote:
The latest nvidia driver should work with the newest xorg:
http://packages.qa.debian.org/n/nvidia- ... 3337Z.html

I have not tried it yet, the only nvidia box here is just a file server atm.

hubi

The driver can be installed, but i wouldn't call that driver "working".


I agree

There are still glitches, however

http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=639737

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ompaul2Offline
Post subject:   PostPosted: 16.09.2011, 09:17



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You can please some of the people some of the time - the problem with proprietary drivers is just that - they are proprietary. This means that if you are unfortunate enough to be landed with hardware that is not free software friendly you have to make some choices.

Rather than castigating the team you might like to edit the wikis and try to submit a cohesive document to the docs team on this subject.

The use of nonfree drivers to make things work is a nasty kludge, the reason is that those pieces of software were not built freely enough to work with all kernels. This is not the fault of Aptosid, nor Debian nor Linux. This is the fault of the hardware manufacturers, and the places that sell this hardware. For 20 years the way to get your hardware correctly supported not you the user but you the manufacturer has been to work with the people who write this fine software. Instead some companies choose to try and go it alone. You see the consequences in what happened here.

This is not designed to say how to solve the problem that was done earlier in this thread. It was done to put the focus where it belongs on bad manufacturing practice with no thought to the freedom of their users.
 
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CaesarTjalboOffline
Post subject:   PostPosted: 16.09.2011, 19:51



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      ompaul2 wrote:
This is the fault of the hardware manufacturers, and the places that sell this hardware.
s/fault/choice/

      ompaul2 wrote:
It was done to put the focus where it belongs on bad manufacturing practice with no thought to the freedom of their users.
Freedom for users doesn't say anything about manufacturing quality or commercial business strategy. In the case of Nvidia it's very well possible that they can have a prospering business catering for the Windows crowd exclusively and by creating products on their own terms, as closed or open as they please.

They choose to provide drivers for Linux. It doesn't work like it should ("module license 'NVIDIA' taints kernel") or how we'd like to see it but generally speaking it works. I can't assess whether it's fair to put the blame for this breakage on Nvidia alone but I don't believe it was done on purpose, nor do I blame the closed source nature of their driver for it. Had Nouveau broken, there wouldn't have been many people able to fix that either.

Nvidia is a commercial enterprise and works in a traditional, closed source, way. We can applaud those companies that have embraced 'open' and even 'free' products and production methods but don't be mistaken: it wasn't always out of free will. They too value their profits and shareholder value over your freedom.
 
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ghstryderOffline
Post subject:   PostPosted: 17.09.2011, 02:31



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Nvidia does not sell driver software, they sell hardware, often expensive hardware. Since, as you say, they are a commercial enterprise, I would suggest they are attempting to capture Linux hardware sales by providing a driver, as opposed to capturing software business. Given a reasonable alternative, the market will speak. Whether or not the voice is significant enough to produce results is another matter altogether. Regardless, anyone using Linux who cannot use the features and functions in the card they paid for should expend their efforts toward adding to that voice, not complaining on a forum.
 
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SpaceferretOffline
Post subject:   PostPosted: 17.09.2011, 04:05



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ghstryder wrote
      Quote:

anyone using Linux who cannot use the features and functions in the card they paid for should expend their efforts toward adding to that voice, not complaining on a forum.

Imaginary dialog between Linux user and Nvidia Corporation technical support representative :

-how come I purchased a computer with on-board nvidia card , wiped off the hard drive , installed Linux on it and now it doesn't work ?
-aren't you aware of the fact that replacing OEM operating system (Window$) with some obscure fly by night 'distribution' will void your warranty?


Nvidia Corp.statement :

On March 5, 2000, the Company entered into an agreement with Microsoft in which the Company agreed to develop and sell graphics chips and to license certain technology to Microsoft and its licensees for use in a product under development by Microsoft. The agreement provides that in April 2000, Microsoft will pay the Company $200 million as an advance against graphics chip purchases and for licensing the Company’s technology.

It is beyond ridiculous to expect Nvidia Corp. to cater to Linux users and 'adding to that voice' will not yield any easy solutions. No one is 'complaining on a forum', all people want to know is the best possible strategy to overcome this bottleneck situation.If nothing can be done, we'll just wait. All these pointless postings just add insult to injury
 
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detaosOffline
Post subject:   PostPosted: 17.09.2011, 05:17
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      ghstryder wrote:
Nvidia does not sell driver software, they sell hardware, often expensive hardware.


actually ... a modern video card is little more than a highly specialized parallel compute architecture with some flavour thrown in for graphics work ... most of the performance and "cool" things the card can do come from the driver. if i was a little less lazy, i'd go track down the article i'm thinking of where a fix to the nvidia driver accounted for a nearly 10% frame rate bump.

say what you like, but you really are paying (a lot) for the driver. that's why nvidia won't open source it. it's where all of the "special sauce" is.

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slamOffline
Post subject:   PostPosted: 17.09.2011, 06:32
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      Spaceferret wrote:
... -aren't you aware of the fact that replacing OEM operating system (Window$) with some obscure fly by night 'distribution' will void your warranty?
Now, this is an old well known myth. While some hardware resellers still might spread it (in order to avoid the cost of warranty handling), the argument does not hold in front of any court in Europe and the US.

Speaking of the Nvidia blob: It was always closed source, and led to a lot of talk about how the GPL applies to the Linux kernel in practice. Several kernel developers still say that the blob does violate the GPL. Besides, the ongoing problems it has with fresh kernel or Xorg versions show that it's code quality is far from good. If you use it with Nvidia/Debian Sid you will allways be confronted with nasty problems and regularily need to wait for Nvidia to provide fixes therefore. Nvidia is dropping support for older cards from time to time, which is also a problem. The only hope we can have for the future of this closed source driver is that manufacturer does move more features from the driver to the firmware in the future.

On the other hand long time ago nvidia.ko was one of the first serious working graphics driver for Linux at all, and motivated other manufacturers to improve their Linux activities. This was good for Linux in general.

Add that the work on the new free Nouveau driver is going on very well, the driver is already good enough for most cards for everything you would usually need, except full 3d hardware acceleration and Optimus support. See details about the status of supported features for your card at the nouveau wiki.

Greetings,
Chris

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SpaceferretOffline
Post subject:   PostPosted: 17.09.2011, 13:05



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slam wrote :
      Quote:

Now, this is an old well known myth.

Replacing OS on any Apple product will most certainly void the warranty.Concerning PC, try to call the manufacturer's service center and tell them you have replaced the original OS with something else and now your computer overheats and you want to have it fixed under the warranty without reversing your PC to it's original state.You wanna bet they'll tell you to have your head checked ?
 
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piperOffline
Post subject:   PostPosted: 17.09.2011, 17:28
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It used to be opening any case with a store bought computer voided the warranty period. There were stickers on the case (usually black) that said so (packard bell, dell, ibm, gateway, hp)
I am not sure if this still applies today.
I bought one computer in my life cpu = 166 MHz, that was for my kids at the time.
Today, my grandkids have more powerful machines than me.
I have been building my own since the cpu was at 75 MHz which I still own today, it is the last of my "old" machines, everything else I had was donated to the flea market, goodwill.

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CaesarTjalboOffline
Post subject:   PostPosted: 18.09.2011, 01:40



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      detaos wrote:
      ghstryder wrote:
Nvidia does not sell driver software, they sell hardware, often expensive hardware.
...
say what you like, but you really are paying (a lot) for the driver. that's why nvidia won't open source it. it's where all of the "special sauce" is.
The "sauce" becoming the most "special" part of computing technology is what led to proprietary software in the first place and subsequently to Free Software.
Thought I mention it because perhaps it's still Software Freedom Day in your timezone Wink
 
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SpaceferretOffline
Post subject:   PostPosted: 19.09.2011, 02:32



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Giving it a good thought, after all this nvidia 'roadblock' is not the end of the world.aptosid team should be given well deserved credit for keeping this distro alive and rolling (literally). Very Happy
I came to aptosid from a distribution rated much higher on the Distrowatch popularity list (which doesn't mean a thing ). It included nvidia drivers and all multimedia one can think of. But all my excitement faded away as soon as I decided to install newer kernel. After reboot I was presented with a black screen divided into 4 rectangles with a shell prompt in each one of them. Still don't know what the problem was, post-install scripts (or lack of thereof) , and to make it even worse it wouldn't allow to boot into previous kernel.The first time I did d-u on aptosid which included newer kernel I was expecting the same results,needless to say how impressed I was when my comp rebooted into the new kernel.Now I'm a believer Laughing
 
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drbOffline
Post subject:   PostPosted: 24.09.2011, 16:58



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xorg 1.11.1-1 has now arrived. Has anyone tried it with the nvidia blob?
 
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Barcelona_debOffline
Post subject:   PostPosted: 24.09.2011, 19:14



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      drb wrote:
xorg 1.11.1-1 has now arrived. Has anyone tried it with the nvidia blob?


Now the drivers seems to work well, I don' t have the render problems I had before the upgrade Smile
 
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clubexOffline
Post subject:   PostPosted: 24.09.2011, 19:15



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Seems OK to me. Using 275.28 (haven't yet tried any 28x.xx versions yet).

I've commented out the "IgnoreABI" kludge and so far I haven't seen any glitches or graphical artifacts.

infobash -v3
Host/Kernel/OS "westfield" running Linux 3.0-4.slh.6-aptosid-amd64 x86_64 [ sidux 2008-04 Πόντος - kde-lite - (200812222256) ]
CPU Info 2x AMD Athlon II X2 240 1024 KB cache flags( sse3 ht nx lm svm ) clocked at [ 800.000 MHz ]
Videocard nVidia C61 [GeForce 7025 / nForce 630a] X.Org 1.11.1 [ 1680x1050@50.0hz ]
Network cards nVidia MCP61
Processes 138 | Uptime 10:51 | Memory 1021.0/3714.3MB | HDD WDC WD2500AAJB-0 Size 250GB (29%used) | GLX Renderer GeForce 7025 / nForce 630a/PCI/SSE2 | GLX Version 2.1.2 NVIDIA 275.28 | Client Shell | Infobash v3.37
 
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vinurOffline
Post subject:   PostPosted: 24.09.2011, 19:59



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Ok I did the deed, installed xserver-xorg-core
Host/Kernel/OS "eyland" running Linux 3.0-4.slh.6-aptosid-amd64 x86_64 [ aptosid 2011-01 Γῆρας - kde-lite - (201102051540) ]
CPU Info 4x AMD Phenom II X4 955 512 KB cache flags( sse3 ht nx lm svm ) clocked at [ 3214.671 MHz ]
Videocard nVidia G96 [GeForce 9400 GT] X.Org 1.11.1 [ 1920x1080@50.0hz ]
Network cards D-Link System Inc DGE-560T PCI Express Gigabit
Processes 148 | Uptime 3min | Memory 660.2/8005.8MB | HDD ST3500418AS,ST32000641AS Size 2500GB (4%used) | GLX Renderer GeForce 9400 GT/PCI/SSE2 | GLX Version 3.3.0 NVIDIA 275.28 | Client Shell | Infobash v3.37

used apt-get then rebooted - it runs x OK
still examining the results but it seems a little slow on graphics as I was using nvidia 280-13
OLD system:
Host/Kernel/OS "eyland" running Linux 3.0-4.slh.6-aptosid-amd64 x86_64 [ aptosid 2011-01 Γῆρας - kde-lite - (201102051540) ]
CPU Info 4x AMD Phenom II X4 955 512 KB cache flags( sse3 ht nx lm svm ) clocked at [ 3214.095 MHz ]
Videocard nVidia G96 [GeForce 9400 GT] X.Org 1.10.4 [ 1920x1080@50.0hz ]
Network cards D-Link System Inc DGE-560T PCI Express Gigabit
Processes 131 | Uptime 10 hours | Memory 525.7/8005.8MB | HDD ST3500418AS,ST32000641AS Size 2500GB (4%used) | GLX Renderer GeForce 9400 GT/PCI/SSE2 | GLX Version 3.3.0 NVIDIA 280.13-3

So I will play with it. BTW Google Earth does work and everything else seems OK
Sanity check ... I am still alive Smile

I watched this forum like a hawk - All good news
 
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