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BillB0BOffline
Post subject: Include a Package Manger in the default install  PostPosted: 08.10.2010, 00:23



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How about add a Package Manger in the default install like Synaptic Package Manager.Makes it alot easier to upgrade or add new software.

Thanks for your time and this OS
 
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edhunterOffline
Post subject: RE: Include a Package Manger in the default install  PostPosted: 08.10.2010, 00:30



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well since we advice the user not to upgrade or install software using a GUI package manager it makes little sense to actually have one by default. There is a GUI package search (described in the manual) to help you find packages and then you can install the packages in a terminal using apt-get.

Yes not entirely new user friendly but it is safer than using a GUI installer especially if you install/upgrade multiple packages and even worse packages that have to do with X or the desktop environment. A crash or restart of the GUI during the installation might cause irreparable damage to dpkg's state

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diblOffline
Post subject:   PostPosted: 08.10.2010, 02:58



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Running Sid, you can't upgrade X packages while running in X -- it will cause destruction. You have to get out of X (init 3) and run dist-upgrade, then start X again (init 5). The manual explains it.

You can use a package manager, like synaptic, to look at the package list, but don't use it to upgrade. Use apt-get, in init 3 level, like the manual says.
 
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monkeynutsOffline
Post subject:   PostPosted: 10.10.2010, 22:03



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Chapter 2. Debian package management : http://www.debian.org/doc/manuals/refer ... operations

Aptitude - Debian Wiki : http://wiki.debian.org/Aptitude

The Debian GNU/Linux FAQ - The Debian package management tools : http://www.debian.org/doc/FAQ/ch-pkgtools.en.html

aptitude user's manual : http://algebraicthunk.net/~dburrows/pro ... de/doc/en/

BillBOB just do things the Debian way and all will be just fine.

The sidux/aptosid way has been wrong from the very beginning. All of the tools Debian provides work just fine.
I have yet to meet anyone that runs Testing or Sid that leaves the X to do upgrades. Just ask anyone in #debian what tools to use and how to upgrade, the answer 100% of the time will be
"Use aptitude, and upgrading in X is just fine."

Hop on over to forums.debian.net and you will get all the help you might need.
 
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bluewaterOffline
Post subject:   PostPosted: 11.10.2010, 02:20
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monkeynuts

Now you know someone who did dist-upgrade in X , not just once but twice.

First time was from not knowing any better, second time was by accident, ( do not drink alcohol then decide to do a dist-upgrade).

Both times left a wrecked install.

Do not dist-upgrade in X , that is the bottom line. I suggest you reread this:

http://manual.aptosid.com/en/sys-admin-apt-en.htm#du-st

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DonKultOffline
Post subject:   PostPosted: 11.10.2010, 05:35
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      monkeynuts wrote:
the answer 100% of the time will be
"Use aptitude, and upgrading in X is just fine."

Thats true if we ignore that many people still use APT instead of aptitude for various reasons, so much that it was even discussed to recommend apt-get for the lenny -> squeeze transition at some point (if you don't trust me regarding usage, just look at popcon votes) and that many systems running debian doesn't even have X installed.

Thats funny, because even your first link says: "apt-get is most suitable for the major system upgrade between releases, etc." and in unstable is every upgrade a "major system upgrade between releases" as it is a dist(ibution)-upgrade…

It even goes on with "In case of doubt, please use the apt-get and apt-cache commands over the aptitude command.". Thanks to show me, i never saw this manual entry before…

But yes, you are completely right as you have a strong connection to debian and a whole lot of experience in unstable for at least 3 years…

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slamOffline
Post subject:   PostPosted: 11.10.2010, 07:33
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      monkeynuts wrote:
I have yet to meet anyone that runs Testing or Sid that leaves the X to do upgrades....

Well, fine. This has nothing to do with aptosid, as we do not simply "upgrade", but always "dist-upgrade", and leave X to do so. And we do not use aptitude (which is not "the debian way", but just one single application - see also DonKults post above, who happens to be one of the apt devs).

You are not a newcomer here, and you also know the reasons. Whatever you do with your system is up to you, but please do not advise people who rely on our support here to intentionally not follow our recommendations. Thank you very much for understanding that.

Greetings,
Chris

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piperOffline
Post subject:   PostPosted: 14.10.2010, 21:14
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I have no comment .... but it is a funny thread, well, the 4th post is very funny Smile

Thank You DonKult as a Apt Dev, your work is really appreciated by aptosid and of course debian


      monkeynuts wrote:

Hop on over to forums.debian.net and you will get all the help you might need.


I don't need to go to an UNOFFICIAL debian forum for help with a debian system, thank you SmileSmileSmile

The greatest debian/sid minds are here at aptosid
 
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DonKultOffline
Post subject:   PostPosted: 15.10.2010, 09:18
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      piper wrote:
      monkeynuts wrote:

Hop on over to forums.debian.net and you will get all the help you might need.


I don't need to go to an UNOFFICIAL debian forum for help with a debian system


Just to get that straight: While a debian domain looks pretty official, only .org is offical, .net is the official unofficial playground. Services like the forums, the new ask.debian.net and so on are all on .net. Official support is only available in the user-mailinglists. Beware that testing and unstable (nor experimental) are official support branches for debian, so while you might get an answer on the mailinglist for them, the answer can also include "use stable".

Aptosid tries to bring the official support to unstable, in return, we do not support testing or stable…


Official support needs a few rules to work properly: Installing packages compiled for ubuntu voids your warranty in debian as well as in aptosid for example.
And it needs people who do the support: You can ask many times for a gnome-aptosid, but if nobody wants to work official on it you will never see it. It might be even possible to do your upgrading needs with rpm instead of APT - but nobody stepped up to support it official…

(and no, rpm is while it is packaged for debian not suitable for doing upgrades in debian)

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sx9Offline
Post subject:   PostPosted: 15.10.2010, 10:42



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If you want to have a package manger, install one Wink .
I know that this sounds stupid, because a few people need a GUI to install something, but i think for Win2aptosid switchers it is not that hard to learn that, most of the time, you don't need to download the "installer" from the webpage and execute it, but enter apt-get install [whateveruwantpackage] in a terminal so that apt downloads and installs the software, when you've read the manual.
OK, I think no beginner has got all package names in his brain, but here comes package search.
For information: The Package manager KPackage has been preinstalled in ouranos, nw available in stable.

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dptOffline
Post subject:   PostPosted: 15.10.2010, 13:55



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i use synaptic just to see the packages, not for install or remove as the devs
are against it due to reasons they know better.

The problem is to avoid the temptation to click its buttons to install.

And it is not Win2aptosid who look for the gui, Win has no such box, it is the Ubuntu2aptosid
user who is used to the gui.

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DeepDayzeOffline
Post subject:   PostPosted: 15.10.2010, 15:56



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How many people have broken their Ubuntu systems for example by using Synaptic or the update manager? I browsed the Ubuntu forums and am surprised at many posts about why their systems broke.

Reason? Updates done while in X and vital system components updated while running.

Most Ubuntu users are newbs to Linux and they don't understand the command line
 
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sx9Offline
Post subject:   PostPosted: 15.10.2010, 22:48



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      Quote:

And it is not Win2aptosid who look for the gui, Win has no such box, it is the Ubuntu2aptosid
user who is used to the gui.

I mean with GUI the executable installer (*.msi;*.exe) that you download with the software. Most of the time, the installer is just included in the installer as an archive, so that the GUI with it's installation procedures is just a wrapper for the software to install it.
I haven't meant the package manager (OK, Windows has got something like that, but only to remove or reinstall software).
But I have to say that you are rightt, too.
 
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alien-aptosidOffline
Post subject:   PostPosted: 17.10.2010, 13:11



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on a lighter note i was very fond of command line aptitude...guess what it is easier to type aptitude search vlc than apt-cache search vlc Smile
 
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OppaErichOffline
Post subject:   PostPosted: 17.10.2010, 13:48



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That's why god created aliases. Wink
 
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