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Luis_POffline
Post subject: Packagesearch  PostPosted: 14.09.2010, 12:07



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In the manual, talking about GUI package searching, there is this warning:
      Quote:
Please do not use Packagesearch to install packages, use it only as a GUI search engine.

Must we follow this advice? The question comes from that packagesearch uses now apt-get instead of aptitude. And we, the users, are very lazy...Sad

Regards.

Luis_P
 
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muchan
Post subject: RE: Packagesearch  PostPosted: 14.09.2010, 13:05
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You must follow this advice, _if you want to get support_ when things go bad.
The reason is the same as the manual says you should go to init 3 for upgrade the system.
 
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snvvOffline
Post subject: Re: Packagesearch  PostPosted: 14.09.2010, 13:30



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Better to upgrade once per week rather than using packagesearch to upgrade.
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snvv
 
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DonKultOffline
Post subject: RE: Re: Packagesearch  PostPosted: 14.09.2010, 14:47
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Yesterday, Tanya wanted to install the funky new and shiny kde game everybody talks about lately: coolnewapp. Coolnewapp unfortunately needs a new kde version 4.5.¼ and she only had 4.5 installed. Half of her system was upgrades - the other half removed as the kde transition wasn't finished on her mirror - just because she requested a simple install of this new funky app without paying to much attention.

She is unhappy now as her laptop doesn't start kde anymore and this funky new coolnewapp required her to reinstall now. She promised to me to keep a closer look at the output of "simple" commands in the future, does most of her install/upgrade/remove tasks in init 3 now - and she said that she never wants to install coolnewapp again…

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devilOffline
Post subject: RE: Re: Packagesearch  PostPosted: 14.09.2010, 15:13



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coolnewapp is cool to install if you read cool output of apt before being so cool to hit 'enter' before reading.
that is uncool.

greetz
devil
 
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DeepDayzeOffline
Post subject: Re: RE: Re: Packagesearch  PostPosted: 14.09.2010, 16:46



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      devil wrote:
coolnewapp is cool to install if you read cool output of apt before being so cool to hit 'enter' before reading.
that is uncool.

greetz
devil


Nice way to put it, devil Smile

It is always cool to pay attention to what apt tells you, before you blow away half your system just for coolnewapp
 
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Luis_POffline
Post subject:   PostPosted: 14.09.2010, 18:26



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I'm afraid I didn't explain well.

In the manual and into many interventions inside the forum, it has been repeated that the system must be in init 3 for d-u, but I wasn't talking about d-u, simply installing a package.

Today I did it, I mean install a package, and I've followed the simplest way: click on install package inside packagesearch, a terminal appeared and it asked for root password. I did, and all went as I were invoked apt-get install, that is to say, fine. Then, I supposed that for installing a normal package users can utilize directly packagesearch (not for d-u or an important part of the system, X server for instance), but I've preferred to ask their opinion to wise people here.

Regards.

Luis_P
 
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BelaLugosiOffline
Post subject:   PostPosted: 14.09.2010, 18:37



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That might be ok for some packages, but some other packages have a bunch of dependencies. Many of those gui-installers can't resolve/handle these dependencies the right way, when dealing with debian/sid. Sid is sometimes pretty unpredictable and installing one package via $gui-packageinstaller can pull a whole lot of new packages behind. And in some cases this can "break the neck" of your system, as some things don't install fully and/or other got deleted (in case of unmet dependencies).
Here comes apt-get which will always tell you in a quite verbose way, what will happen, when installing coolnewapp.

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Luis_POffline
Post subject:   PostPosted: 14.09.2010, 19:08



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Totally agree, but the nub of the matter is that packagesearch does apt-get.
 
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muchan
Post subject:   PostPosted: 14.09.2010, 22:34
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      Luis_P wrote:
Totally agree, but the nub of the matter is that packagesearch does apt-get.


packagesearch does apt-get on X windows Smile

So, when installing a package involves upgrading libraries, etc. that is essential for running X windows or desktop on it,
you can be thrown away from below. (see DonKult's post above.)

(I do install some packages in the terminal on X windows, some times, but always read apt-get's message carefully. When in doubt, I go to runlevel 3)

You can be lazy and can do what you want on your PC, but if things goes wrong with it, don't expect support, and don't talk bad about the distro. Smile
 
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ghstryderOffline
Post subject:   PostPosted: 15.09.2010, 00:35



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We have seen this countless times. Rather than clutter up the main forum with a user that knows more than the devs, why not move this and similar posts to the User Script, Oops the Dragon Got Me forum. If nothing else, innocent souls can at least understand they have left the comfort zone if they venture in there and start typing in a console based on a post by a generally well meaning and advanced user.
 
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Luis_POffline
Post subject:   PostPosted: 15.09.2010, 11:22



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      Quote:
Rather than clutter up the main forum with a user that knows more than the devs


I'm afraid the phantoms of impolite interventions arise again. Apologies for not knowing so much as you.

If you read my second post with a bit of attention, you'll realize that I've asked for advice, never try for "to know more than the devs".

If the use of apt-get for installing a package must be into init 3, the manual should be changed. In this page it is only recommended go to init 3 for apt-get dist-upgrade, not for apt-get install.

Regards.

Luis_P.
 
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clearyOffline
Post subject:   PostPosted: 15.09.2010, 12:13



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Hi Luis_P,

There are a lot of tools out there, and it is difficult for us to stay abreast of every single one of them, and their options.
The issues relating to GUI package management tools have been detailed by others in this thread - without significant testing, I'm sure you understand that it is difficult for us to go ahead and recommend a tool that has previously not been suitable for use.

At the end of the day, it is your system. If you feel confident that you can manage any potential issues then it would be great to get some feedback on it after a decent period of use. Especially on how it reports when a major packageset upgrade is required. It would go a long way to helping us make a firm statement about it either way.
For anyone not confident with the risk, or who doesn't understand the potential risks discussed in this thread, I strongly recommend continuing with our current recommended method of using apt-get.

PS I moved it to the Experimental section
 
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effoOffline
Post subject:   PostPosted: 15.09.2010, 12:29



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But if there is a risk with installing packages in X (which there is I guess), shouldn't it be emphasized in the manual?
 
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clearyOffline
Post subject:   PostPosted: 15.09.2010, 12:34



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      effo wrote:
But if there is a risk with installing packages in X (which there is I guess), shouldn't it be emphasized in the manual?


The difference is, it is difficult to miss the flood of packages when working from a commandline (inside a DE or not), vs working via a gui package management tool which may or may not choose to hide that detail.
 
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