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titanOffline
Post subject: time to change to 64 bit  PostPosted: 03.05.2011, 18:36



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I did try 64 bit Sidux a while back but some applications for normal use I needed, like flash and wine, weren't then available, there was also the problem with the 32 libs needed for running 32 bit applications on 64 bit and I didn't notice any speed difference anyway so have things improved, is it time to give 64 bit another run.
 
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DonKultOffline
Post subject: RE: time to change to 64 bit  PostPosted: 03.05.2011, 19:02
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you still have more or less small to big problems with 32bit applications - but that obviously depends on your freeness level. If you don't use them, you have no problem at all…

Note also that this problem might disappear "very soon now" (TM) with the introduction of MultiArch - but that highly depends on a lot of factors and can easily need a few months still…
(as far as i know: dpkg needs to merge multiarch-branch. libc6 needs a multiarch-enabling upload, then a lot of packages can be changed to make MultiArch rock the world…)

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titanOffline
Post subject: Re: RE: time to change to 64 bit  PostPosted: 04.05.2011, 07:14



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      DonKult wrote:
you still have more or less small to big problems with 32bit applications - but that obviously depends on your freeness level. If you don't use them, you have no problem at all…



Thanks for your help but I am not sure the above helps clarify the situation.
 
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broweOffline
Post subject: RE: Re: RE: time to change to 64 bit  PostPosted: 04.05.2011, 13:41



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If your cpu is 64 bit there is no good reason to be running it in 32 bit mode. Flash and wine work in 64 bit and if you absolutely need 32 bit apps that is possible as you know with 32 libs, but that is becoming less necessary every day. I don't believe 64 bit is any faster than 32 bit and it uses slightly more memory typically, but enables more memory to be installed on the system. I've been running 64 bit for 3 years now and even with the flash problem we had last year there were workarounds.
 
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DeepDayzeOffline
Post subject: Re: RE: Re: RE: time to change to 64 bit  PostPosted: 04.05.2011, 14:01



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      browe wrote:
If your cpu is 64 bit there is no good reason to be running it in 32 bit mode. Flash and wine work in 64 bit and if you absolutely need 32 bit apps that is possible as you know with 32 libs, but that is becoming less necessary every day. I don't believe 64 bit is any faster than 32 bit and it uses slightly more memory typically, but enables more memory to be installed on the system. I've been running 64 bit for 3 years now and even with the flash problem we had last year there were workarounds.



With the upcoming multiarch for apt/apt-get installing 32bit apps will become more seamless so that shouldn't even be a problem

I'm trying out 64 bit now and looks like I'll be taking the 64bit plunge relatively soon
 
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dptOffline
Post subject: RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: time to change to 64 bit  PostPosted: 04.05.2011, 17:29



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I do not remember using 32 bit sidux/aptosid ot W7.
I do not remember buying any hardware in last many
years that is not fully 64-bit compatible.

There is no plunge to take. Just the long due change.

Have a nice day.

dpt

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ikeinthaiOffline
Post subject: 64bit gnash and youtube-dl really work.  PostPosted: 16.05.2011, 08:38



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i was stuck with 32bit mostly, because only my 32bit machines had interweb access. the 32bit gnash never worked AT ALL for me. i was never able to see a damn thing with it. the youtube-dl was very spotty, it would go long periods without working. i would have to use proprietary flash and snatch files out of tmp, that type of thing.

the 64bit programs seem more up to date and better maintained. i can do what i need to do with far less proprietary crapola. weight lifted off of my shoulders 8D

best to all, ike.

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LatOffline
Post subject: RE: 64bit gnash and youtube-dl really work.  PostPosted: 21.05.2011, 02:46



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This means debian will be like windows 64 where you can install apps regardless if they're 32/64 bits? about time?
 
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DeepDayzeOffline
Post subject: Re: RE: 64bit gnash and youtube-dl really work.  PostPosted: 21.05.2011, 03:38



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      Lat wrote:
This means debian will be like windows 64 where you can install apps regardless if they're 32/64 bits? about time?


Yes something like that. Would be nice to simply install an i386 deb on your amd64 system much like installing a 32bit app on Windows
 
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DonKultOffline
Post subject: Re: RE: 64bit gnash and youtube-dl really work.  PostPosted: 21.05.2011, 09:59
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      DeepDayze wrote:
      Lat wrote:
This means debian will be like windows 64 where you can install apps regardless if they're 32/64 bits? about time?


Yes something like that. Would be nice to simply install an i386 deb on your amd64 system much like installing a 32bit app on Windows

You can already do that (to some degree). Think of skype, flash and most other proprietary stuff. The packages need to be build in a different manner to cope with a few changes (different dependencies etc.), but the application itself were unchanged (how you should do that without source code anyway?). This is commonly called "bi-arch" or "tri-arch" as the space is limited.

This multiarch-thingy will allow in future to use the packages build for i386 straight on your amd64 machine. But also to install armel on sh4 or amd64 on mips… If your machine supports it of course to execute these binaries. But even if it can't a developer might still want to install these packages to compile his applications for this "foreign" architecture.

The bootstrapping for this change is ongoing, but very very early so it will need a few more weeks/months until it can be really used by endusers. But i can see a light at the end of the tunnel.
Lets hope it's not a train. Wink

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DeepDayzeOffline
Post subject: Re: RE: 64bit gnash and youtube-dl really work.  PostPosted: 27.05.2011, 00:59



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      DonKult wrote:
      DeepDayze wrote:
      Lat wrote:
This means debian will be like windows 64 where you can install apps regardless if they're 32/64 bits? about time?


Yes something like that. Would be nice to simply install an i386 deb on your amd64 system much like installing a 32bit app on Windows

You can already do that (to some degree). Think of skype, flash and most other proprietary stuff. The packages need to be build in a different manner to cope with a few changes (different dependencies etc.), but the application itself were unchanged (how you should do that without source code anyway?). This is commonly called "bi-arch" or "tri-arch" as the space is limited.

This multiarch-thingy will allow in future to use the packages build for i386 straight on your amd64 machine. But also to install armel on sh4 or amd64 on mips… If your machine supports it of course to execute these binaries. But even if it can't a developer might still want to install these packages to compile his applications for this "foreign" architecture.

The bootstrapping for this change is ongoing, but very very early so it will need a few more weeks/months until it can be really used by endusers. But i can see a light at the end of the tunnel.
Lets hope it's not a train. Wink


Sounds great to even install "foreign" source packages for an arch that's foreign to the system such package is being installed on
 
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arwaOffline
Post subject: RE: Re: RE: 64bit gnash and youtube-dl really work.  PostPosted: 09.06.2011, 07:54



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As I think about buying a new PC (intel sandy bridge i5) I also wonder if I should go for 32bit or 64bit aptosid. This will touch the decision for 4gb or 8gb of RAM.

As I understand this thread, you recommend to choose 64bit, right? The main problem is, that I need the adobe flash plugin for work. What is the best way to get this running on a 64bit system?

a) the 64bit flash plugin seems to be outdated.
b) use the 32bit flash plugin with a 64bit browser? Is this a stable and simple way to go? Or will it often break in dist-upgrades?
c) use the 32bit flash plugin with a 32bit browser. This seems to be the multi-arch topic, right? So there would be much manual work to get this working?

Which solution is the prefered one? b) or c)?

Besides of the maximum RAM usage of the system (I think about 3.5gb with 32bit?) is there any other drawback of simply installing a 32bit aptosid? Will all hardware components be supported the same in 32bit as with 64bit?

Thanks,
arwa
 
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DeepDayzeOffline
Post subject: Re: RE: Re: RE: 64bit gnash and youtube-dl really work.  PostPosted: 09.06.2011, 13:53



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      arwa wrote:
As I think about buying a new PC (intel sandy bridge i5) I also wonder if I should go for 32bit or 64bit aptosid. This will touch the decision for 4gb or 8gb of RAM.

As I understand this thread, you recommend to choose 64bit, right? The main problem is, that I need the adobe flash plugin for work. What is the best way to get this running on a 64bit system?

a) the 64bit flash plugin seems to be outdated.
b) use the 32bit flash plugin with a 64bit browser? Is this a stable and simple way to go? Or will it often break in dist-upgrades?
c) use the 32bit flash plugin with a 32bit browser. This seems to be the multi-arch topic, right? So there would be much manual work to get this working?

Which solution is the prefered one? b) or c)?

Besides of the maximum RAM usage of the system (I think about 3.5gb with 32bit?) is there any other drawback of simply installing a 32bit aptosid? Will all hardware components be supported the same in 32bit as with 64bit?

Thanks,
arwa


To run 32 bit Flash in a 64 bit browser use nspluginwrapper as this application has improved enough to run certain 32 bit plugins in 64bit Iceweasel/Firefox quite stably.

You could install a 32 bit browser if necessary
 
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dptOffline
Post subject: RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: 64bit gnash and youtube-dl really work.  PostPosted: 09.06.2011, 14:20



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For those who are still scared to go for 64-bit aptosid, install both 32-bit and 64-bit. HDD space today is no
matter of concern, shortly we will be talking in TB as now in GB for RAM.

Best way is to see and feel for yourself. Else by the time you decide, 128-bit may be incoming.
Flash here in 64-bit running fine, I can not do without Youtube.

dpt

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DeepDayzeOffline
Post subject: RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: 64bit gnash and youtube-dl really work.  PostPosted: 09.06.2011, 14:26



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I now have 64 bit Aptosid installed right now and no issues. For now the experimental 64 bit Flash works and I have installed NoScript to help keep out the nasties
 
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