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DeepDayzeOffline
Post subject:   PostPosted: 09.06.2011, 16:51



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      se7en wrote:
Well I would also like to know why it is not allowed to post about remastering here.
You made clear that you will not support him or problems that rise using his remaster. But how can sharing information that others might be interested in be not allowed here?


Agreed, properly done a remaster can help spread the adoption of Aptosid and perhaps help the Aptosid developers in developing alternate versions of Aptosid. While these "unofficial" remasters are not supported by the Aptosid devs of course, these could very well be useful to the community.

Xetaprime's interest in producing an E17 respin of Aptosid's a great idea and worthy of constructive discussion.


Last edited by DeepDayze on 09.06.2011, 16:53; edited 1 time in total
 
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aylaOffline
Post subject:   PostPosted: 09.06.2011, 16:53



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Sometimes I can understand the policys in here very well.

Sometimes not at all.

This one here is -of course- one of the second case.
 
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DeepDayzeOffline
Post subject:   PostPosted: 09.06.2011, 16:59



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      ayla wrote:
Sometimes I can understand the policys in here very well.

Sometimes not at all.

This one here is -of course- one of the second case.


Yep, if someone can come up with a solid and fully working LXDE respin of Aptosid for example that should actually be welcomed by the devs. This shows there's a community that wants to help.

Having rather restrictive policies can turn out to be more of a hindrance than help. Policies that are open and flexible are the best way to keep and grow the community. I can see asking permission to use aptosid's artwork and such beforehand is a courtesy though.
 
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se7enOffline
Post subject:   PostPosted: 09.06.2011, 17:13



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      Quote:

Yep, if someone can come up with a solid and fully working LXDE respin of Aptosid for example that should actually be welcomed by the devs. This shows there's a community that wants to help.

Exactly a community that is supported in side projects will make the community and the project stronger. Most of us turned to linux and maybe especially to aptosid because we like to think outside the box. But sometimes I have the feeling that this is not welcome here. That is actually kind of sad.

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DeepDayzeOffline
Post subject:   PostPosted: 09.06.2011, 17:20



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      se7en wrote:
      Quote:

Yep, if someone can come up with a solid and fully working LXDE respin of Aptosid for example that should actually be welcomed by the devs. This shows there's a community that wants to help.

Exactly a community that is supported in side projects will make the community and the project stronger. Most of us turned to linux and maybe especially to aptosid because we like to think outside the box. But sometimes I have the feeling that this is not welcome here. That is actually kind of sad.


Look at all the side projects of Ubuntu ie Kubuntu, Lubuntu, Xubuntu are all spinoffs of Ubuntu that were given the blessing of Canonical. This is one example of a community that thinks outside the box. If the Aptosid community can do similar things like that then that's actually a great thing. Yes it is sad when the Aptosid team has rather restrictive policies that discourage the very thing Xetaprime's doing. He was only looking for advice and feedback on his project, that's all.
 
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slamOffline
Post subject:   PostPosted: 09.06.2011, 17:23
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      DeepDayze wrote:
...
Agreed, properly done a remaster can help spread the adoption of Aptosid and perhaps help the Aptosid developers in developing alternate versions of Aptosid. While these "unofficial" remasters are not supported by the Aptosid devs of course, these could very well be useful to the community.

Xetaprime's interest in producing an E17 respin of Aptosid's a great idea and worthy of constructive discussion.

No, it would not help us, as we user our own build tool pyfll for creating alternate versions. Everyone is very much welcome to get involved in our LXDE or Gnome team, who are already using pyfll in order to create future official alternatives. The same is true if people get involved in working on e17. So, get involved in the project and help to build alternatives the proper way in our workflow with our tools. You can join our IRC channel #aptosid-docs in order to get in contact with other contributors, and suggest your ideas (and - most important - patches to pyfll for your ideas) there.

Said that, remasters are a different topic. They are technicially very problematic (installation and upgrade issues, etc.), absolutely unsupported and discouraged by us. Additionally, there are legal issues if you publish them and do not provide full sources together with anything you release to the public.

If you do insit on remasters, feel free to use Aptosid, but please do not use our forums to propagate it.

Greetings,
Chris

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Last edited by slam on 09.06.2011, 17:26; edited 1 time in total
 
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DeepDayzeOffline
Post subject:   PostPosted: 09.06.2011, 17:25



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      slam wrote:
      DeepDayze wrote:
...
Agreed, properly done a remaster can help spread the adoption of Aptosid and perhaps help the Aptosid developers in developing alternate versions of Aptosid. While these "unofficial" remasters are not supported by the Aptosid devs of course, these could very well be useful to the community.

Xetaprime's interest in producing an E17 respin of Aptosid's a great idea and worthy of constructive discussion.

No, it would not help us, as we user our own build tool pyfll for creating alternate versions. Everyone is very much welcome to get involved in our LXDE or Gnome team, who are already using pyfll in order to create a future official alternatives. The same is true if people get involved in working on e17. So, get involved in the project and help to build alternatives the proper way in our workflow with our tools.

Said that, remasters are a different topic. They are technicially very problematic (installation and upgrade issues, etc.), absolutely unsupported and discouraged by us. Additionally, there are legal issues if you publish them and do not provide full sources together with anything you release to the public.

If you do insit on remasters, feel free to use Aptosid, but please do not use our forums to propagate it.

Greetings,
Chris


Xetaprime's willing to use pyfll but was not sure where to start. If he's given some advice and feedback on how to use it in building his project then he'll gladly use such tools.
All he was wanting is constructive feedback and if he's using the wrong tools he should be pointed in the right direction. Xetaprime wanted to do this project right so that's why he posted it here.

Granted such independent remasters of Aptosid are not supported by the dev team, but projects like this will actually HELP Aptosid not hinder it and I am sure Xetaprime will be willing to share information with the dev team.
 
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se7enOffline
Post subject:   PostPosted: 09.06.2011, 17:28



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That policy would so to speak be Exodus 20:1-3 Smile

Sorry but I think being a bit more open to people who want to help could not hurt.

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DeepDayzeOffline
Post subject:   PostPosted: 09.06.2011, 17:34



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      se7en wrote:
That policy would so to speak be Exodus 20:1-3 Smile

Sorry but I think being a bit more open to people who want to help could not hurt.


Absolutely. If there are people wanting to help develop (and maintain) alternative versions of Aptosid there needs to be open communication rather than in flatly discouraging people.

It was not long ago someone suggested a Gnome version of aptosid, but got shot down
 
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se7enOffline
Post subject:   PostPosted: 09.06.2011, 17:54



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Ah I was already wondering when the "legal issues" would become an issue.
And they might even be real and sid with e17 might also not be the easiest/best setup.
But that is at least in my opinion not the problem here.
I followed the thread and it looked like a user had the skills to try something new.
Nobody seemed to be interested, few tried to help. But once the user (like the thread says) "kinda" succeeded, he got shot down. ??? and told that that was not the proper way/tool ...

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x-un-i
Post subject:   PostPosted: 09.06.2011, 20:52
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i would say

** don't** name it aptosid

** publish** sources with the iso

** we *** dont like it and not want to be related to it. Please make that clear

otherwise do whatever you want, as long as you follow the licenses (simplified: provide sources and don't omit the copyright infos)
Make it obvious that whatever you publish is not aptosid/fullstory (and not supported by us)

BTW our infrastructure is no advertising board for your personal remasters.

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devilOffline
Post subject:   PostPosted: 09.06.2011, 21:22



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you guys really know how to make active newcomers feel welcome.
you might as well just say: go away.
i agree that the tools used in this case are not the tools of choice.
but instead of nitpicking, why didnt anybody give a headstart with pyfll
(and yes, i know, its not supported)

greetz
devil
 
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piperOffline
Post subject:   PostPosted: 09.06.2011, 21:33
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I will take pyfll over remaster any day Wink

I have done quite a few fvwm-crystal builds using pyfll, but, fvwm-crystal (3.0.6) really hasn't been updated in 3 years (23-Jun-2008) so I gave up on it. I still do have one installed on a old computer (sidux-2007-03-200706011051-gaia.iso)

I really enjoyed building and using it, also at the same time I was messing with gnome (sidux--200712311434-piper special-gnome-full-i386.iso).

Now I just make stock aptosid builds, sometimes I add mythtv to it.

pyfll is a great tool, wish I knew more (my fault)

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xetaprimeOffline
Post subject:   PostPosted: 09.06.2011, 22:47



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Hola! Smile

Hey, thanx to those who've said kind words. I really appreciate it. I knew Remastersys wasn't supported but I didn't think it was discouraged and once you set a system free, what difference does it make if something works? Why would you discourage a user who is just remastering their own system. I'm not even talking about making a distro to share. Seems to me you should just say- "have at it".

slam,
      Quote:
No, it would not help us, as we user our own build tool pyfll for creating alternate versions.


Okay, it might not help you but my main goal from the beginning- even though I ended up making a distro, was to share that remastersys at least right now can work and it might help others like me who set their system up and want to remaster. And sooner than it would take to learn or even find Pyfll. Why isn't Pyfll in the repos?

This afternoon I started with my 32 bit Aptosid and began recreating what I did in the 64. I now realize everything goes in and works without error except grub, which can be installed with 'grub restore' after install. I know what 'I' did wrong with all my quips at the beginning. But this is how we learn. One difference with the 32 live dvd is it does logout eject and reboot as a live disc should. I will probably rebuild my 64 now to test.

If you want to try here's what I did with a clean Aptosid Install:

1. Apt-get update
2. I installed Synaptic and gdebi. What can I say.
3. Apt-get dist-upgrade
3. (from Synaptic) I installed:
live-boot
live-boot-tools
live-config
live-config-sysvinit
4. Downloaded live-initramfs (squeeze) ran gdebi to install.
5. Added Remastersys squeeze repo- installed Remastersys.
6. Installed gdm3
7. Installed dnsmasq
8. (from terminal) Remastersys backup
9. Burned iso
10. Booted iso
11. Installed iso
12. Ran 'Grub Restore'
13 Rebooted and wha-la!

No issues except grub.

Hope this helps those who feel daring. Once you know what to do it goes real quick and when you remaster again it's only grub you have to remember.

Best wishes,
Xeta
 
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piperOffline
Post subject:   PostPosted: 10.06.2011, 01:01
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      xetaprime wrote:
Why isn't Pyfll in the repos?


      Code:
piper@x1:~$ apt-cache search fullstory
sshstart - set ssh passwords
setpassword - sets password for live user
desktop-defaults-xfce - user presets specific to the Xfce desktop environment
desktop-defaults-lxde - user presets specific to the LXDE desktop environment
desktop-defaults-common - common user presets for various popular desktop applications
desktop-defaults-kde - user presets specific to the K desktop environment
grub2-fll-fromiso - update-grub (grub2) plugin for fullstory fromiso
install-usb-gui - gui for fll-iso2usb
install-gui - aptosid install-gui for fll-installer
fll-installer-common - aptosid common scripts used by the installer frontends
python-fll - common infrastructure for the FULLSTORY live Debian media project
fll-live-initscripts - fll live media sysv initscripts
fll-live-xorgconfig - fll live media xorg related tools
fll-live-utils - fll live utilities
fll-live-initramfs - fll live media initramfs glue
fll-installer - backend scripts to install aptosid to hdd
fll-iso2usb - backend scripts to install aptosid to an usb hdd


http://svn.berlios.de/wsvn/fullstory
 
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