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neosidOffline
Post subject:   PostPosted: 27.06.2011, 05:12



Joined: 2011-06-23
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"the neosid effect"

LOL.

      Quote:
All in all the only sane solution i have seen here is installing the package from experimental which is now in unstable, so no need for all these kind of trickery…

And i heard a few people saying it works now (irc, this thread), so if it doesn't for you, please open a new thread as it would be a different issue with the same endresult - and none of the included """solutions""" is good anymore… (if they were at any time).


P.S.: I can't help with the issue at hand as i don't have radeon or nvidia cards, but if i would read one of the posts above i wouldn't even bother to help as i would prefer to work on my skill to juggle with running chainsaws. That would be at least saner and easier… so splitting your issue to a new one is a very good idea…


The neosid Effects:

1. I have received thank you messages, about how my testing and posted results have saved people from giving up on aptosid.

2. The upgrade to sid, is not resolved yet, as was inferred above. I had to revert to my own posted commands, on page 3 of this thread, yet again, and we are working fine, here. Others have reported the same; with the downgrade.

3. As to "sanity" and "trickery", when X is broken, waiting over Ten days (now) is far from acceptable behavior, even for sid. A workaround, if worked out, and easily instructed, as I did, would be in order. While each may have their own, and sometimes differing results, other people have corroborated the same results, as I experienced. I do not, generally, doubt posts of other methods, as working. However, on my system, those posted experimental usage commands worked out to be an insanely difficult, to get back out of. I actually reverted back from experimental, the hard way, and which does not always work. I have reports, that had I not posted a solution, to work back out of the failed experimental instructions, they would have left aptosid, for another, more reasonable distro, and all that is involved with it.

4. I do not think, ..."is good anymore… (if they were at any time)." is appropriate forum statements. This opens the door to my next point.

5. It should be obvious, at this late date, that we should state whether our offered help, is seen validated, or not; along with an easy to follow, to a point, command instructions. Of course, an efforts success, or failure, may not be everyones same experience.

6. If you do not have the hardware in question, then you may certainly suggest better hardware, or even policy changes, from feet dragging, non-free companies, but why would you even attempt to in effect, call someone a lier, for hard working out a throughly tested workaround, that gets X up now?

7. As far as this thread, and its move, I have no control over this. If you believe we should take up another thread, I await your detailed recommendation, as I do not understand why a working, hard-fought workaround, would be moved; before the fix truly falls through to sid, and my dist-upgrades.

8. As far as I knew, this was a thread, and warning about nvidia (and ati I read), not working; after dist-upgrade. I also wonder why, as this was a "multi-arch" restructuring, and thus folder foul-up, why after 10 days, it is not in sid? By the time I write this, it may indeed be fixed. I stated this with my, quick and easy, testing downgrade commands, but the bug was still not fixed, a few minutes minute ago, here. I checked.

9. I think some of us have forgotten, that we are all in this together. What you post, reflects on the whole of open software. "Everything is permissible, but not everything is advisable." Please do not post guesses; without testing them, or stating that it's your best guess. Please do not infer, that the testing results of others is disingenuous, and please consider posting solutions that are easy to implement.

10. Most of all, what are we doing to reduce the amount of time required, for theses fixes, and also their temporary workarounds?
 
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ghstryderOffline
Post subject:   PostPosted: 27.06.2011, 10:33



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Ah, the knight protector of the downtrodden nvidia class.
 
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DonKultOffline
Post subject:   PostPosted: 27.06.2011, 14:00
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      neosid wrote:
6. If you do not have the hardware in question, then you may certainly suggest better hardware, or even policy changes, from feet dragging, non-free companies, but why would you even attempt to in effect, call someone a lier, for hard working out a throughly tested workaround, that gets X up now?


I may not own the hardware you talked about, but i contribute a fair share to software you have misused in various ways to get to your "throughly tested workaround" - so i think i am entitled to criticism your "solution": It can't be that well tested through as the pinning entry you recommend to use will downgrade every package which is effected by any install/upgrade request you do while it is in effect to testing and forbids the installation of any package from unstable or experimental (beside that you haven't even said that they NEED to remove it later). So, that you got a still working system and even the thing you desired was only possible with a not to small portion of luck, not skill nor through testing as something like --force-depends can't be tested. It usually just destroys systems if it is included in step-by-step guides and even as simple as looking at the manpages would have told you this.


But to get at least some value in this post:

As far as i know the current working solution is (if your system is already broken - at least a few sources suggest that current sid works and btw: even if it would be 10 days, waiting even longer isn't unbearable. At least if you are not an addict. You know what they say: "I can stop it at any time…")
      Code:
echo "deb http://ftp.us.debian.org/debian/ experimental main contrib non-free" > /etc/apt/sources.list.d/debian-experimental.list
apt-get purge .*nvidia.*
apt-get update
apt-get dist-upgrade
apt-get -t experimental install nvidia-kernel-source
m-a clean nvidia-kernel-source
m-a a-i nvidia-kernel-source
apt-get -t experimental install nvidia-glx
echo "blacklist nouveau" > /etc/modprobe.d/blacklist-nouveau.conf
rm /etc/apt/sources.list.d/debian-experimental.list #optional


More about adding sources to your list and how m-a works can be found in the manual of course! Don't be as blind as entering whatever is written on a forum straight into your terminal without checking it.

Also note through that the amount of packages you need from experimental drops further and further. Pulling glx-alternative from experimental is for example a bad idea now as it is older than the sid one and this will become true for more. So watch out for messages about DOWNGRADE and do NOT perform them. Instead use the version dist-upgrade installed for you then and go on.

As you might know downgrades are not supported by the software nor the distribution and can cause a lot of trouble: Some of you have already experienced it. Downgrading with diversions is no fun at all…
For people already fallen into this trap something like that might help:
      Code:
rm -f /var/lib/dpkg/alternatives/glx /etc/alternatives/glx
dpkg --configure -a
apt-get update
apt-get dist-upgrade
apt-get install --reinstall --only-upgrade glx-alternative-mesa glx-alternative-nvidia glx-alternative-fglrx


Through i wouldn't hold my breath as i can't test it…

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diblOffline
Post subject:   PostPosted: 27.06.2011, 15:00



Joined: 2010-09-12
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Just to be clear for anyone trying to follow this torturous thread, towo's advice on page 1 to downgrade libgl1-mesa-glx to the testing version (7.10.2-3), and then pin it, continues to allow both my Nvidia systems to work with no video issues. Both systems are fully upgraded as of yesterday evening. Here is one:


      Code:
susan@susansid:~$ infobash -v3
Host/Kernel/OS  "susansid" running Linux 2.6.39-2.slh.1-aptosid-amd64 x86_64 [ aptosid 2011-01 Γῆρας - kde-lite - (201102051540) ]
CPU Info        2x Intel Core2 X6800 @ 4096 KB cache flags( sse3 ht nx lm vmx ) clocked at [ 2926.000 MHz ]
Videocard       nVidia GT200 [GeForce GTX 260]  X.Org 1.10.2  [ 1600x1200@50.0hz ]
Network cards   Intel 82573L Gigabit
Processes 185 | Uptime 2days | Memory 1017.0/3964.8MB | HDD WDC WD1500AHFD-0 Size 150GB (32%used) | GLX Renderer GeForce GTX 260/PCI/SSE2 | GLX Version 3.3.0 NVIDIA 275.09.07 | Client Shell | Infobash v3.36


FWIIW
 
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neosidOffline
Post subject:   PostPosted: 28.06.2011, 03:41



Joined: 2011-06-23
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Trolling, or worse, is where you take my stated, and verified post, which others have agreed helped, and then mixed it with my other posts. Where I was asking for help, and clearly stated what did not work. Don't you think I could have deleted my errors. Why do you think I didn't delete my mistakes? Do you never err? Which by the way, those were clearly stated, in a response to asking what I actually did. From the moment they were typed, it was clearly my attempt at guessing how to repair, the failed experimental recommendation. Are you inferring Towo comes on these forums, just to mis-guild people? I think not. As far as my "folly", in trying a "team leader" suggestion, I re-broke my system; just to test it for the good of all. I almost had to reinstall. Especially, due to the lack of much help. I mean what really happened, is commands were posted; that were terse, and when they failed, I was told to "read the manual", and "are you kidding". What about the fact the those commands, cause problems for people? I fixed it myself, and even told you how i did it. Now, we have posts factually stating two things. One, the experimental method failed, with others, just as it did mine, and Two, My self discovered back-out (of experimental packs) worked, not only for me, but also others.

So guess what? Your "ingenious commands" (the new one above; by someone else) failed to work/fix, my dilemma, as they were the first thing I tried. How can you even be here, and not know the difference between theory and fact? How can you not know, that NOT everything, that is supposed to work, does?

Oh, and your inference that people can't, or don't read the texts, in between quoted commands, is insulting to us all, I'm sure. Would that anyone do so, there was never any question about which commands I posted, worked, or did not.

I did my job, and that, I picked. Including the mess I got myself into, and out of. I fully knew, the risks, going in. You are welcome. You see, I offered the working solution, in a speedy way, that was easy to follow, when peoples X was down. This got them going; now! What are you doing?

I actually fixed this temporary problem; 3 different ways.

1. sgfxi. It worked.

2. The vague, "just use testing", I turned into something actually doable; fast.

3. I even showed how to fix the posted, "experimental" method; when it failed, for some people.

Aptosid Knight,

It seems you are in dire need; of a knight. Yet, I don't have time, for this extra, added, horse foo. So, fight the good fight, noble ones.

If I mistook towo, as forum leader around here, that was a mistake, on my part. If you read what I did, I effectively showed, how towo commands didn't work for some people. Now, I see "team" people here are saying (I think) "experimental" was never a good idea, if running Sid. I would generally agree.

As far as temporarily downgrading, a pack to testing, so that X works, and right now, that was the suggestion of the people who broke it; in the first place. That's in the bug reports. I just added to what Piper knew (and towo, to be fair), and made it easy (to a point), and fast.


Last edited by neosid on 28.06.2011, 16:04; edited 1 time in total
 
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jacmoeOffline
Post subject:   PostPosted: 28.06.2011, 12:36



Joined: 2011-04-13
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I just unheld my nvidia stuff and upgraded - so this problem is solved!
nVidia and compatible glx/mesa is in Debian Sid now.
At least on amd64. Smile
 
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neosidOffline
Post subject:   PostPosted: 28.06.2011, 15:23



Joined: 2011-06-23
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Unhold with....

echo libgl1-mesa-glx install|dpkg --set-selections

and with init 3

(Actually, check for other warnings here; before upgrade. Also, consider using apt-listbugs. Plus, there's been some issues, with repo's.)

apt-get dist-upgrade

Yes, the wait is over. It works. My post, on page 3, is no longer needed. That was from the 17th, to the 28th, which was about a week, and 3 days, where using those parts, in testing (for sid users), would get you going; until today.

Nvidia; amd64 here.
 
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merlynOffline
Post subject:   PostPosted: 28.06.2011, 21:07



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Just released libgl1-mesa-glx and libgl1-mesa-dri from hold and followed the correct du procedure.

All is working well on my 32 bit install.

Off topic; good to see that it is also working on 64 bit. Time to do a 64 bit install now.

Cheers.
 
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tageloehnerOffline
Post subject:   PostPosted: 13.08.2011, 23:12



Joined: 2011-08-13
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Hello,

on my system
"Linux eiche 3.0.0-1-amd64 #1 SMP Sun Jul 24 02:24:44 UTC 2011 x86_64 GNU/Linux"
(normally the perfect computer)

updates of some packages still crashes the X server - like reported:
module glx and fglrx not found,
even with correctly loaded modules.


Any installation of one of the packages in the attachment prevents the X server to start (if you keep dependencies).

My Linux level is fairly ok, this is not a beginners remark.

In my opinion this is a severe bug.

Best regards...
 
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diblOffline
Post subject:   PostPosted: 14.08.2011, 00:44



Joined: 2010-09-12
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Location: Dayton, Ohio, USA
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You have fglrx and nvidia packages -- what the heck? What is your secret mystery GPU?

If you simply follow the manual, you should not have such a problem.

Here the nvidia driver is working fine on 2 systems.
      Code:
Host/Kernel/OS  "aptosidbox" running Linux 2.6.39-3.slh.2-aptosid-amd64 x86_64 [ aptosid 2010-03 Ἀπάτη - kde-lite - (201012262151) ]
CPU Info        8x Intel Core i7 950 @ 8192 KB cache flags( sse3 ht nx lm vmx ) clocked at [ 1600.000 MHz ]
Videocard       nVidia GF100 [GeForce GTX 480]  X.Org 1.10.3  [ 1920x1200@50.0hz ]
Network cards   Marvell 88E8056 PCI-E Gigabit
Processes 232 | Uptime 1day | Memory 984.4/5978.8MB | HDD OCZ-REVODRIVE,OCZ-REVODRIVE,KINGSTON SS100S2,WDC WD1002FAEX-0,WDC WD1002FAEX-0 Size 2136GB (2%used) | GLX Renderer GeForce GTX 480/PCI/SSE2 | GLX Version 4.1.0 NVIDIA 280.13 | Client Shell | Infobash v3.37
 
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tageloehnerOffline
Post subject:   PostPosted: 18.08.2011, 11:49



Joined: 2011-08-13
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Yes, both, because one image is running on 13 Laptops, if st is broken we just change the disks.

Best regards
 
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slamOffline
Post subject:   PostPosted: 18.08.2011, 12:29
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While running the same image/disk on different machines will work quite ok with Linux, there are some points where you need to adapt them. Using closed source graphics drivers from different vendors is one of those points. Running nvidia and fglrx on the same installation will always lead to problems, as both drivers tend to overwrite core Xorg files making them unusable for any other driver.
You may file bug reports at nvidia and amd/ati commercial sites, but I do not think that they will care much.
Adapting fstab, host & mail names is necessary also.
Greetings,
Chris

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tageloehnerOffline
Post subject:   PostPosted: 19.08.2011, 09:41



Joined: 2011-08-13
Posts: 4
Location: Germany
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I dont want to argue about my choise of installation - it is working fine since years. Its one image fitting all the hardware of different laptops without changes.

What happend: Update of packages appear, the X server fails with message
"failed to load module glx" and
"failed to load module fglrx"
even if these modules are loaded directly.

I set the responsible packages - see last attachment - to "hold" and submit a bug report.
The only answers are flames.

So I stop conversation. Bye.



>While running the same image/disk on different machines will >work quite ok with Linux, there are some points where you need >to adapt them. Using closed source graphics drivers from >different vendors is one of those points. Running nvidia and >fglrx on the same installation will always lead to problems, >as both drivers tend to overwrite core Xorg files making them >unusable for any other driver.
>You may file bug reports at nvidia and amd/ati commercial >sites, but I do not think that they will care much.
>Adapting fstab, host & mail names is necessary also.
>Greetings,
>Chris
 
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slamOffline
Post subject:   PostPosted: 19.08.2011, 12:21
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I really do not see flames here, sorry - just people trying to help you. Please re-read my post above. With every upgrade of Xorg or fglrx or nvidia several files of Xorg (specially those -glx ones) will be overwritten. This has nothing to do with your "choice of installation", but is a common problem of the both closed source drivers.
Greetings,
Chris

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development is life
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tageloehnerOffline
Post subject:   PostPosted: 02.09.2011, 14:46



Joined: 2011-08-13
Posts: 4
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Its working again now - bug seems to be fixed.

See

http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=610022

Debian Bug report logs - #610022
"fglrx-glx fails to install in parallel with nvidia-glx"

Thanks to all developers.
 
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