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IgnorantGuruOffline
Post subject:   PostPosted: 13.09.2011, 15:02



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      slam wrote:
The reason is simple: By using Debian sid as a base directly, we are the first to get hit from bugs in the Nvidia blob with almost every major upgrade of Xorg since many years. The blob beeing a blob makes us unable to fix those bugs. This is not our "arrogance" or unfriendlyness - we are simply not able to do it, only the Nvidia employed programmers can do so. That's what we every time have to wait for. Most other distros are using the same Xorg packages long time after they have passed Debian Sid, and until then the Nvidia bugs are usually fixed.


Well, I've used some other rolling release distros and didn't encounter so many nvidia issues as I do with Aptosid. I don't know how they managed that - perhaps they held the driver back at times, etc. Probably the difference is due to the attention they gave the issues, which is why I said the stated lack of Aptosid team members who use it may be the cause.

As for it being closed source, I don't think that is highly relevant. Even if an open source video driver was buggy, it doesn't seem likely you're going to fix their bugs for them. In my view it's mostly an issue relating to the attention given to packaging. Open source does give you a little more flexibility in packaging, but I question whether that is the main issue of Aptosid's instability in this area.

And I'll grant you that dealing with nvidia and other closed source drivers is time-consuming and requires experience. We'd all like to be free of it, but that's not where Linux is overall. Those who avoid all closed source drivers are somewhat lucky. Personally, I do my best to support Linux-friendly manufacturers, but it's never a simple choice. And even hardware purchased a few years ago was purchased in a different climate with regard to this issue. So for older hardware support, closed source drivers are probably more critical.

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slamOffline
Post subject:   PostPosted: 13.09.2011, 15:13
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For those interested in the technical background of the issue, please see the related Debian bug report, and the link to the Nvidia support forums provided there. Feel free to discuss your issues with the Nvidia drivers with the people who wrote them. For those not interested in details, please wait until a team member gives green light here.
All those who want to discuss requests from the Aptosid team please continue at our sub forum called "Requests & Suggestions".
Greetings,
Chris

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IgnorantGuruOffline
Post subject:   PostPosted: 13.09.2011, 15:25



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      slam wrote:
For those interested in the technical background of the issue, please see the related Debian bug report, and the link to the Nvidia support forums provided there. Feel free to discuss your issues with the Nvidia drivers with the people who wrote them. For those not interested in details, please wait until a team member gives green light here.


Thanks - that's a helpful team statement, and now that a DU is no longer trying to remove nvidia, I think that's a sufficient response from Aptosid's team. This is a buggy driver version from Nvidia, so that is clearly their problem. Not sure if it should have been packaged at all by Debian, but perhaps, buggy as it is, it was required due to the update to xorg.

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trcOffline
Post subject:   PostPosted: 13.09.2011, 17:58



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To people wondering about my nvidia and xorg versions

I can also say that the nvidia drivers from experimental worked for me as well before the 275 drivers came to unstable.

I am also using the IgnoreABI option in xorg.conf

      Code:

root@troy-pc:~# dpkg -l | grep xserver-xorg-core
ii  xserver-xorg-core                    2:1.11.0-1                       Xorg X server - core server



root@troy-pc:~# dpkg -l | grep nvidia-glx
ii  libgl1-nvidia-glx                    280.13.really.275.28-1           NVIDIA binary OpenGL libraries
ii  nvidia-glx                           280.13.really.275.28-1           NVIDIA metapackage
 
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piperOffline
Post subject:   PostPosted: 13.09.2011, 21:35
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      trc wrote:
I am also using the IgnoreABI option in xorg.conf


That is a *key to why your system is *working, However, there are some glitches using that as seen here on the forums/posts.

It is not in anyway the best route to go and we don't recommend it, However, it is your machine, do what you want, no support from us this way.

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trcOffline
Post subject:   PostPosted: 14.09.2011, 02:13



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I haven't experienced any glitches what so ever, also the 275 series of drivers officially supports xorg 1.11 according to the release notes.

http://www.nvidia.com/object/linux-disp ... river.html

Added support for xserver ABI 11 (xorg-server 1.11).

As for my nouveau bug, it is well documented and it was not related to having NVIDIA drivers installed as I first encountered the bug on a live CD that obviously did not start with the official nvidia drivers enabled.

Heres a bug report that was filed for it.
https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+sour ... bug/689507
 
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piperOffline
Post subject:   PostPosted: 14.09.2011, 02:23
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      trc wrote:
I haven't experienced any glitches what so ever, also the 275 series of drivers officially supports xorg 1.11 according to the release notes.


Can you take the IgnoreABI option out in xorg.conf and reboot ???

That is the test

I am using 285.03 and still need the IgnoreABI option

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trcOffline
Post subject:   PostPosted: 14.09.2011, 02:46



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Just figured I'd add that after commenting out the IgnoreABI in my xorg.conf the nvidia driver still works.

I am running a pure openbox system, so no fancy desktop effects and what not.
 
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piperOffline
Post subject:   PostPosted: 14.09.2011, 02:52
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Interesting, havent tried without the ABI in 2 days, will try it, if not i will try 275 series

Are you using dmakms ?

/etc/X11/xorg.conf.d/20-nvidia.conf
or
/etc/X11/xorg.conf

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trcOffline
Post subject:   PostPosted: 14.09.2011, 03:01



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I am using an xorg.conf (have it set up for dual monitors) i'll post the contents of my xorg.conf

      Code:

# nvidia-settings: X configuration file generated by nvidia-settings
# nvidia-settings:  version 270.41.06  (buildd@barber)  Mon May 16 12:36:43 UTC 2011

Section "ServerLayout"
    Identifier     "Layout0"
    Screen      0  "Screen0" 0 0
    InputDevice    "Keyboard0" "CoreKeyboard"
    InputDevice    "Mouse0" "CorePointer"
    Option         "Xinerama" "0"
EndSection

Section "Files"
EndSection

Section "InputDevice"
    # generated from default
    Identifier     "Mouse0"
    Driver         "mouse"
    Option         "Protocol" "auto"
    Option         "Device" "/dev/input/mouse0"
    Option         "Emulate3Buttons" "no"
    Option         "ZAxisMapping" "4 5"
EndSection

Section "InputDevice"
    # generated from default
    Identifier     "Keyboard0"
    Driver         "kbd"
EndSection

Section "Monitor"
    # HorizSync source: edid, VertRefresh source: edid
    Identifier     "Monitor0"
    VendorName     "Unknown"
    ModelName      "HannStar Display Corp HSD160PHW1"
    HorizSync       30.0 - 75.0
    VertRefresh     60.0
    Option         "DPMS"
EndSection

Section "Device"
    Identifier     "Device0"
    Driver         "nvidia"
    VendorName     "NVIDIA Corporation"
    BoardName      "GeForce GTS 360M"
EndSection

Section "Screen"
    Identifier     "Screen0"
    Device         "Device0"
    Monitor        "Monitor0"
    DefaultDepth    24
    Option         "TwinView" "1"
    Option         "metamodes" "DFP-0: 1366x768_60 +0+0, DFP-1: 1280x720_60 +1366+0"
    SubSection     "Display"
        Depth       24
    EndSubSection
EndSection

#Section "ServerFlags"
#    Option "IgnoreABI" "true"
#EndSection
 
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piperOffline
Post subject:   PostPosted: 14.09.2011, 03:41
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This is NOT FIXED for 285.03

Have not tested 275 series yet

Can you post your
      Code:
infobash -v3


I have taken out the serverflag section completely, it boots, but, it the does NOT show drivers installed

      Code:
piper@x1:~$ infobash -v3
Host/Kernel/OS  "x1" running Linux 3.0-4.slh.3-aptosid-amd64 x86_64 [ aptosid snapshot - kde-lite - (201108132144) ]
CPU Info        2x AMD Athlon 64 X2 Dual Core 4200+ 512 KB cache flags( sse3 ht nx lm svm ) clocked at [ 2200.000 MHz ]
Videocard       nVidia GF106 [GeForce 450 GTS]  X.Org 1.11.0  [ 1920x1080@50.0hz ]
Network cards   Realtek RTL8111/8168B PCI Express Gigabit
Processes 137 | Uptime 2min | Memory 506.2/3965.9MB | HDD ST3320620AS,ST31000528AS,ST31000528AS Size 2320GB (53%used) | Client Shell | Infobash v3.37
piper@x1:~$


Using inxi

      Code:
piper@x1:~$ inxi -F
System:    Host: x1 Kernel: 3.0-4.slh.3-aptosid-amd64 x86_64 (64 bit) Desktop KDE 4.6.5 Distro: Debian GNU/Linux wheezy/sid
Machine:   Mobo: Gigabyte model: GA-MA770-S3 version: x.x Bios: Award version: F6f date: 08/19/2008
CPU:       Dual core AMD Athlon 64 X2 4200+ (-MCP-) cache: 1024 KB flags: (lm nx sse sse2 sse3 svm)
           Clock Speeds: 1: 1000.00 MHz 2: 1000.00 MHz
Graphics:  Card: nVidia GF106 [GeForce 450 GTS] X.Org: 1.11.0 driver: nvidia Resolution: 1920x1080@50.0hz
           GLX Renderer: N/A GLX Version: N/A
Audio:     Card-1: ATI SBx00 Azalia (Intel HDA) driver: HDA Intel Sound: ALSA ver: 1.0.24
           Card-2: nVidia GF106 High Definition Audio Controller driver: HDA Intel
Network:   Card: Realtek RTL8111/8168B PCI Express Gigabit Ethernet controller driver: r8169
           IF: eth0 state: up speed: 100 Mbps duplex: full mac: 00:1d:7d:d8:0e:cf
Drives:    HDD Total Size: 2320.5GB (53.1% used) 1: /dev/sda ST3320620AS 320.1GB
           2: /dev/sdb ST31000528AS 1000.2GB 3: /dev/sdc ST31000528AS 1000.2GB
Partition: ID: / size: 187G used: 8.0G (5%) fs: rootfs ID: / size: 187G used: 8.0G (5%) fs: reiserfs
           ID: swap-1 size: 1.07GB used: 0.00GB (0%) fs: swap
Sensors:   Error: You do not have the sensors app installed.
Info:      Processes: 128 Uptime: 6 min Memory: 664.4/3965.9MB Client: Shell inxi: 1.7.23
piper@x1:~$


NOTE --> GLX Renderer: N/A GLX Version: N/A

glxgears
      Code:
piper@x1:~$ glxgears
X Error of failed request:  BadValue (integer parameter out of range for operation)
  Major opcode of failed request:  135 (GLX)
  Minor opcode of failed request:  3 (X_GLXCreateContext)
  Value in failed request:  0x27
  Serial number of failed request:  33
  Current serial number in output stream:  34
piper@x1:~$


So in fact you still need ABI serverflag section

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Last edited by piper on 14.09.2011, 04:03; edited 1 time in total
 
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piperOffline
Post subject:   PostPosted: 14.09.2011, 03:56
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This is what it looks like with the ABI serverflag section

infobash -v3

      Code:
piper@x1:~$ infobash -v3
Host/Kernel/OS  "x1" running Linux 3.0-4.slh.3-aptosid-amd64 x86_64 [ aptosid snapshot - kde-lite - (201108132144) ]
CPU Info        2x AMD Athlon 64 X2 Dual Core 4200+ 512 KB cache flags( sse3 ht nx lm svm ) clocked at [ 2200.000 MHz ]
Videocard       nVidia GF106 [GeForce 450 GTS]  X.Org 1.11.0  [ 1920x1080@50.0hz ]
Network cards   Realtek RTL8111/8168B PCI Express Gigabit
Processes 139 | Uptime 1min | Memory 626.3/3965.9MB | HDD ST3320620AS,ST31000528AS,ST31000528AS Size 2320GB (53%used) | GLX Renderer GeForce GTS 450/PCI/SSE2 | GLX Version 4.2.0 NVIDIA 285.03 | Client Shell | Infobash v3.37

Notice --> Renderer GeForce GTS 450/PCI/SSE2 | GLX Version 4.2.0 NVIDIA 285.03

inxi -F

      Code:
piper@x1:~$ inxi -F
System:    Host: x1 Kernel: 3.0-4.slh.3-aptosid-amd64 x86_64 (64 bit) Desktop KDE 4.6.5 Distro: Debian GNU/Linux wheezy/sid
Machine:   Mobo: Gigabyte model: GA-MA770-S3 version: x.x Bios: Award version: F6f date: 08/19/2008
CPU:       Dual core AMD Athlon 64 X2 4200+ (-MCP-) cache: 1024 KB flags: (lm nx sse sse2 sse3 svm)
           Clock Speeds: 1: 1000.00 MHz 2: 1000.00 MHz
Graphics:  Card: nVidia GF106 [GeForce 450 GTS] X.Org: 1.11.0 driver: nvidia Resolution: 1920x1080@50.0hz
           GLX Renderer: GeForce GTS 450/PCI/SSE2 GLX Version: 4.2.0 NVIDIA 285.03
Audio:     Card-1: ATI SBx00 Azalia (Intel HDA) driver: HDA Intel Sound: ALSA ver: 1.0.24
           Card-2: nVidia GF106 High Definition Audio Controller driver: HDA Intel                                                 
Network:   Card: Realtek RTL8111/8168B PCI Express Gigabit Ethernet controller driver: r8169                                       
           IF: eth0 state: up speed: 100 Mbps duplex: full mac: 00:1d:7d:d8:0e:cf                                                 
Drives:    HDD Total Size: 2320.5GB (53.1% used) 1: /dev/sda ST3320620AS 320.1GB                                                   
           2: /dev/sdb ST31000528AS 1000.2GB 3: /dev/sdc ST31000528AS 1000.2GB                                                     
Partition: ID: / size: 187G used: 8.0G (5%) fs: rootfs ID: / size: 187G used: 8.0G (5%) fs: reiserfs                               
           ID: swap-1 size: 1.07GB used: 0.00GB (0%) fs: swap                                                                     
Sensors:   Error: You do not have the sensors app installed.                                                                       
Info:      Processes: 139 Uptime: 1 min Memory: 638.5/3965.9MB Client: Shell inxi: 1.7.23                                         
piper@x1:~$

Notice --> GLX Renderer: GeForce GTS 450/PCI/SSE2 GLX Version: 4.2.0 NVIDIA 285.03

glxgears

      Code:
52105 frames in 5.0 seconds = 10420.835 FPS
52197 frames in 5.0 seconds = 10439.255 FPS
52136 frames in 5.0 seconds = 10427.056 FPS
52095 frames in 5.0 seconds = 10418.954 FPS
51978 frames in 5.0 seconds = 10395.457 FPS

Looks much better than without the serverflag Wink

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trcOffline
Post subject:   PostPosted: 14.09.2011, 12:39



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neither infobash nor inxi commands worked on my laptop, so I am assuming they are scripts that come with aptosid, anyways I grabbed inxi from their google page and installed it, here are my results.

      Code:

troy@troy-pc:~$ inxi -F
System:    Host troy-pc Kernel 3.0.0-1-amd64 x86_64 (64 bit) Desktop Openbox 3.4.11.2 Distro Debian GNU/Linux wheezy/sid
Machine:   System ASUSTeK product G60JX version 1.0
           Mobo PEGATRON model G60JX version 1.0 Bios American Megatrends version 208 date 08/16/2010
CPU:       Dual core Intel Core i5 CPU M 430 (-HT-MCP-) cache 3072 KB flags (lm nx sse sse2 sse3 sse4_1 sse4_2 ssse3 vmx)
           Clock Speeds: (1) 1199.00 MHz (2) 1199.00 MHz (3) 1199.00 MHz (4) 1199.00 MHz
Graphics:  Card: nVidia GT215 [GeForce GTS 360M] X.Org 1.11.0 driver nvidia Resolution 1366x768@50.0hz
           GLX Renderer GeForce GTS 360M/PCI/SSE2 GLX Version 3.3.0 NVIDIA 275.28
Audio:     Card-1 nVidia High Definition Audio Controller driver HDA Intel Sound: ALSA v: 1.0.24
           Card-2 Intel 5 Series/3400 Series Chipset High Definition Audio driver HDA Intel
Network:   Card-1 Atheros AR8131 Gigabit Ethernet driver atl1c
           IF: eth0 state: down speed: 4294967295 Mbps duplex: full mac: e0:cb:4e:4a:b3:96
           Card-2 Atheros AR9285 Wireless Network Adapter (PCI-Express) driver ath9k
           IF: wlan0 state: up mac: 00:25:d3:ce:4e:ba
Drives:    HDD Total Size: 500.1GB (74.1% used) 1: /dev/sda ST9500420AS 500.1GB
Partition: ID:/ size: 20G used: 3.6G (20%) fs: ext4 ID:swap-1 size: 4.00GB used: 0.00GB (0%) fs: swap
Sensors:   Error: You do not have the sensors app installed.
Info:      Processes 115 Uptime 36 min Memory 826.8/3829.5MB Client Shell inxi 1.7.7


GLX Renderer GeForce GTS 360M/PCI/SSE2 GLX Version 3.3.0 NVIDIA 275.28

This is with the ignoreABI NOT set.

glxgears also works (after I installed mesa-utils lol)
 
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Post subject:   PostPosted: 14.09.2011, 12:55
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The latest nvidia driver should work with the newest xorg:
http://packages.qa.debian.org/n/nvidia- ... 3337Z.html

I have not tried it yet, the only nvidia box here is just a file server atm.

hubi

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towoOffline
Post subject:   PostPosted: 14.09.2011, 13:57



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      hubi wrote:
The latest nvidia driver should work with the newest xorg:
http://packages.qa.debian.org/n/nvidia- ... 3337Z.html

I have not tried it yet, the only nvidia box here is just a file server atm.

hubi

The driver can be installed, but i wouldn't call that driver "working".
 
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