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manulOffline
Post subject: d-u wants to install systemd  PostPosted: 05.05.2014, 20:15



Joined: 2010-09-13
Posts: 96

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Systemd appears as "new package to be installed" on 3 aptosid machines.

1) Is this intended?

2) How do I find which packages start to depend from systemd, so I can remove them? (I'd rather keep my machines with sysvinit for now).

Thanks,

manul


      Code:

root@siddie-new:/home/manul# d-u
Hit http://ftp.us.debian.org sid InRelease
Hit http://ftp.us.debian.org sid/main amd64 Packages/DiffIndex
Hit http://oscar.aptosid.com sid InRelease
Hit http://ftp.us.debian.org sid/contrib amd64 Packages/DiffIndex
Hit http://oscar.aptosid.com sid/main amd64 Packages
Hit http://ftp.us.debian.org sid/non-free amd64 Packages/DiffIndex
Hit http://ftp.us.debian.org sid/contrib Translation-en/DiffIndex
Hit http://oscar.aptosid.com sid/fix.main amd64 Packages
Hit http://ftp.us.debian.org sid/main Translation-en/DiffIndex
Hit http://ftp.us.debian.org sid/non-free Translation-en/DiffIndex
Ign http://oscar.aptosid.com sid/fix.main Translation-en_US
Ign http://oscar.aptosid.com sid/fix.main Translation-en
Ign http://oscar.aptosid.com sid/main Translation-en_US
Ign http://oscar.aptosid.com sid/main Translation-en
Reading package lists... Done
Reading package lists... Done
Building dependency tree       
Reading state information... Done
Calculating upgrade... Done
The following packages will be REMOVED:
  alsa-base
The following NEW packages will be installed:
  systemd
The following packages have been kept back:
  policykit-1
The following packages will be upgraded:
  base-files cpp cups cups-bsd cups-client cups-common cups-core-drivers cups-daemon cups-ppdc cups-server-common feh fonts-liberation fuse g++ gcc gcc-4.9-base
  intel-microcode kmod libatomic1 libav-tools libavcodec54 libavdevice53 libavfilter3 libavformat54 libavresample1 libavutil52 libcups2 libcupscgi1 libcupsimage2
  libcupsmime1 libcupsppdc1 libfuse2 libgcc1 libgfortran3 libgksu2-0 libgmp10 libgmpxx4ldbl libgomp1 libgtk-vnc-1.0-0 libgvnc-1.0-0 libitm1 libkmod2 libobjc4
  libpolkit-agent-1-0 libpolkit-backend-1-0 libpolkit-gobject-1-0 libquadmath0 libsqlite3-0 libstdc++6 libswscale2 libtar0 libtsan0 libxmu6 libxmuu1 login make
  module-init-tools passwd php5-cli php5-common python-debian python-gtk-vnc ttf-liberation xdg-utils
64 upgraded, 1 newly installed, 1 to remove and 1 not upgraded.
Need to get 0 B/19.7 MB of archives.
After this operation, 3,669 kB of additional disk space will be used.
Download complete and in download only mode
Updating apt-show-versions ...
 
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leonidasOffline
Post subject:   PostPosted: 06.05.2014, 03:58



Joined: 2011-09-21
Posts: 5

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Same question here. Also I wonder if the removal of alsa-base is alright?
      Code:
Die folgenden Pakete werden ENTFERNT:
  alsa-base
 
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samspadeOffline
Post subject:   PostPosted: 06.05.2014, 13:59



Joined: 2010-09-17
Posts: 12

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Don't know about systemd but the alsa-base removal seems to be intentional:
http://aptosid.com/index.php?name=PNphp ... amp;t=2783

regards,

Martin
 
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yossarianOffline
Post subject:   PostPosted: 06.05.2014, 22:40



Joined: 2010-09-11
Posts: 35

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http://forum.siduction.org/index.php?topic=4534.0
https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugrepo ... =747105#27
 
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manulOffline
Post subject:   PostPosted: 06.05.2014, 23:45



Joined: 2010-09-13
Posts: 96

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thanks so much, yossarian

so policykit-1 is the reason with me

I just did not quite understand - is this a bug (so I can wait and no d-u until this dependency goes away)?
Or, I *must* install systemd-shim now, to be able to d-u for the future without converting to systemd-sysv?

thanks,

manul
 
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yossarianOffline
Post subject:   PostPosted: 07.05.2014, 00:15



Joined: 2010-09-11
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It's not a bug.
If you don't want systemd-sysv just install systemd-shim instead.
 
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manulOffline
Post subject:   PostPosted: 07.05.2014, 11:24



Joined: 2010-09-13
Posts: 96

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Thanks, but actually it does not seem to help:

      Code:
root@siddie-new:/home/manul# apt-cache policy systemd-shim
systemd-shim:
  Installed: 6-3
  Candidate: 6-3
  Version table:
 *** 6-3 0
        500 http://ftp.us.debian.org/debian/ sid/main amd64 Packages
        100 /var/lib/dpkg/status
root@siddie-new:/home/manul# apt-get update && apt-get dist-upgrade -d
Hit http://ftp.us.debian.org sid InRelease               
Hit http://ftp.us.debian.org sid/main amd64 Packages/DiffIndex
Hit http://ftp.us.debian.org sid/contrib amd64 Packages/DiffIndex
Hit http://ftp.us.debian.org sid/non-free amd64 Packages/DiffIndex
Hit http://ftp.us.debian.org sid/contrib Translation-en/DiffIndex
Hit http://ftp.us.debian.org sid/main Translation-en/DiffIndex
Hit http://ftp.us.debian.org sid/non-free Translation-en/DiffIndex
Hit http://oscar.aptosid.com sid InRelease
Hit http://oscar.aptosid.com sid/main amd64 Packages
Hit http://oscar.aptosid.com sid/fix.main amd64 Packages
Ign http://oscar.aptosid.com sid/fix.main Translation-en_US
Ign http://oscar.aptosid.com sid/fix.main Translation-en
Ign http://oscar.aptosid.com sid/main Translation-en_US
Ign http://oscar.aptosid.com sid/main Translation-en
Reading package lists... Done
Reading package lists... Done
Building dependency tree       
Reading state information... Done
Calculating upgrade... Done
The following packages will be REMOVED:
  alsa-base
The following NEW packages will be installed:
  libpam-systemd linux-headers-3.14-3.slh.1-aptosid-amd64 linux-image-3.14-3.slh.1-aptosid-amd64 systemd
The following packages will be upgraded:
  apt apt-utils base-files cpp cups cups-bsd cups-client cups-common cups-core-drivers cups-daemon cups-ppdc cups-server-common default-jre default-jre-headless feh
  fonts-liberation fuse g++ gcc gcc-4.9-base intel-microcode java-common kde-l10n-de kmod krdc libapt-inst1.5 libapt-pkg4.12 libatomic1 libav-tools libavcodec54
  libavdevice53 libavfilter3 libavformat54 libavresample1 libavutil52 libcups2 libcupscgi1 libcupsimage2 libcupsmime1 libcupsppdc1 libfuse2 libgcc1 libgegl-0.2-0
  libgfortran3 libgksu2-0 libgmp10 libgmpxx4ldbl libgomp1 libgtk-vnc-1.0-0 libgvnc-1.0-0 libitm1 libkipi-data libkipi11 libkmod2 libobjc4 liborcus-0.6-0 libperl5.18
  libpolkit-agent-1-0 libpolkit-backend-1-0 libpolkit-gobject-1-0 libquadmath0 libraptor2-0 libsqlite3-0 libstdc++6 libswscale2 libtar0 libtsan0 libvirt0 libxmu6
  libxmuu1 linux-headers-aptosid-amd64 linux-image-aptosid-amd64 login make mime-support module-init-tools passwd perl perl-base perl-modules php5-cli php5-common
  policykit-1 powermgmt-base python-debian python-gtk-vnc ttf-liberation xdg-utils
88 upgraded, 4 newly installed, 1 to remove and 0 not upgraded.
Need to get 0 B/107 MB of archives.
After this operation, 176 MB of additional disk space will be used.
Do you want to continue? [Y/n] n
Abort.
root@siddie-new:/home/manul#


Systemd still wants to be installed...

Any other ideas?

Thanks,
manul

P.S. Is there any way so I can get from apt, such sort of information:
"new package xxx is going to be installed because it is dependency of package yyy"; without manually traversing all the list of recursive dependencies of all possible packages involved, one by one?
 
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towoOffline
Post subject:   PostPosted: 07.05.2014, 11:57



Joined: 2010-09-13
Posts: 500
Location: Pößneck / Thüringen
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      Quote:
Systemd still wants to be installed...

And?
installed != used

Or do you see sysvinit to be removed?
 
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titanOffline
Post subject:   PostPosted: 07.05.2014, 14:50



Joined: 2010-09-11
Posts: 78

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      towo wrote:
      Quote:
Systemd still wants to be installed...

And?
installed != used

Or do you see sysvinit to be removed?



yes sysvinit-core will be removed.

Will this not just become an increasing problem now Debian has chosen Systemd. Does aptosid have have any plans for changing.
 
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titanOffline
Post subject:   PostPosted: 07.05.2014, 14:50



Joined: 2010-09-11
Posts: 78

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      towo wrote:
      Quote:
Systemd still wants to be installed...

And?
installed != used

Or do you see sysvinit to be removed?



yes sysvinit-core will be removed.

Will this not just become an increasing problem now Debian has chosen Systemd. Does aptosid have have any plans for changing.
 
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titanOffline
Post subject:   PostPosted: 07.05.2014, 14:51



Joined: 2010-09-11
Posts: 78

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      towo wrote:
      Quote:
Systemd still wants to be installed...

And?
installed != used

Or do you see sysvinit to be removed?



yes sysvinit-core will be removed.

Will this not just become an increasing problem now Debian has chosen Systemd. Does aptosid have have any plans for changing.
 
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spockOffline
Post subject:   PostPosted: 07.05.2014, 15:51



Joined: 2010-09-11
Posts: 80
Location: Near Milton Keynes, UK
Status: Offline
@manul, it's not a problem to have the systemd package on your system, see:

http://aptosid.com/index.php?name=PNphp ... 7287#17287

@titan, when manul posted his apt output, his machine wasn't removing sysvinit-core, so is your case different? If sysvinit-core really is to be removed (and replaced by systemd-sysv) then you may face serious issues like I did last week - see my thread linked above if you didn't already. And do what yossarian suggested and install systemd-shim before DU.
 
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manulOffline
Post subject:   PostPosted: 07.05.2014, 16:46



Joined: 2010-09-13
Posts: 96

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      towo wrote:
      Quote:
Systemd still wants to be installed...

And?
installed != used
Or do you see sysvinit to be removed?

If it is not going to be "used" at all, why should then it be "installed" at all?

I have some fedora boxes with systemd, but (for various reasons) do not feel comfortable for using it with my aptosid machines (unless it is absolutely unavoidable).

I do not want to argue for anything; I just want to know better what is going on (and what Debian's systemd policy will effectively turn out to be in reality).

I was under impression (could be wrong) that while systemd gets default init with Debian, Debian should still officially support alternate init systems as well - well at least for some time (without systemd binary being used either as PID 1, or any other way)?

spock, yossarian and others:
Right now, policykit-1 dependency of systemd (via libpam-systemd) should be satisfied by alternative systemd-shim; and all I ask is how do I find which exactly package still "pulls" systemd as a dependency.
No one answered this yet btw, and this is a generic question (I was wondering about it before as well, for other packages).

Thanks,
manul
 
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mheyesOffline
Post subject:   PostPosted: 07.05.2014, 19:32



Joined: 2011-02-10
Posts: 41

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I just did a d-u, systemd installed, nothing removed. Then, apt-get purge systemd, and systemd was removed but nothing else. Ridiculous.
 
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yossarianOffline
Post subject:   PostPosted: 07.05.2014, 19:51



Joined: 2010-09-11
Posts: 35

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@manul:
What's wrong with you?

Have you read that link provided above?
https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugrepo ... =747105#27

policykit-1 switch to logind because ConsoleKit is dead for ages.
      Quote:
ConsoleKit is a framework for defining and tracking users, login sessions, and seats.

ConsoleKit is currently not actively maintained. The focus has shifted to the built-in seat/user/session management of Software/systemd called systemd-logind!

http://www.freedesktop.org/wiki/Software/ConsoleKit/
 
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