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phenOffline
Post subject:   PostPosted: 25.11.2010, 19:17



Joined: 2010-09-11
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Thanks, pretty much aware of better not to d-u in X.

Your idea makes me wonder though: I could simply switch to another tty, d-u there with the -d switch, then finish the d-u after having shut X down.
I mean, the tty I used for downloading the packages should still be active the same way as before, no?
 
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muchan
Post subject:   PostPosted: 25.11.2010, 20:37
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      dpt wrote:
Download in X in terminal with -d option.
su
apt-get update
apt-get dist-upgrade -d
CTRL-ALT-F1 to exit X
init 3
apt-get update
apt-get update
apt-get dist-upgrade -d
apt-get dist-upgrade
apt-get clean
init5 && exit

I guess that I correctly remember. Please correct if not
Thanks
dpt


(you wrote "Please correct", so...)

You don't need to do "apt-get update" twice.

you don't need to do "apt-get dist-upgrade -d" separately before "apt-get dist-upgrade".
(especially, if you have already downloaded the package while on X)

You don't need to do, or should not do "apt-get clean" if you'd like to look into installed .deb file after install.
(imho, you need to do apt-get clean only once in a while... )
 
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dptOffline
Post subject:   PostPosted: 26.11.2010, 16:57



Joined: 2010-09-11
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I have suggested what I see as most fail-proof.

The second dist-upgrade -d may be useful if the dist-upgrade is done after a time delay after first one.

Normally when the data is very large, I do in multiple sessions.

Thanks.

_________________
In a lunatic asylum, everyone thinks that he is the doctor.
 
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noxOffline
Post subject:   PostPosted: 26.11.2010, 20:52



Joined: 2010-09-14
Posts: 45

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Hey folks,

i'm wondering why nobody mentioned this?:

http://sidux.com/index.php?name=PNphpBB2&file=viewtopic&t=11731




It says it works with apt...
 
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devilOffline
Post subject:   PostPosted: 26.11.2010, 21:47



Joined: 2010-08-26
Posts: 491
Location: Berlin
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that is for sure not the easiest way. and its been discussed for weeks, after we abandoned it from our support facilities.

greetz
devil
 
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noxOffline
Post subject:   PostPosted: 29.11.2010, 01:27



Joined: 2010-09-14
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It may not be the easiest way for developers, but I think the emphasis in this regard should be placed exclusively on every day users.
Since init 3 is necessary not only for dist-upgrade, but also for installing new apps as well as removing them, the „charon“ or a similar script would (at least in my opinion) greatly improve the user experience, stability and security of aptosid for most users.

The steps i now take in X are as follows:
1. su // in my yakuake terminal (which is really cool Wink)
2. apt-get update && apt-get dist-upgrade -d // alias sid
2. apt-show-versions -u // version check
3. repeat the 2. step and download updates.
4. init 3
No problems so far... but as mylo and phen pointed out, for me the most important thing is not to have to login as root again...

5. After login in init 3 again, i do „apt-get dist-upgrade“. (alias sidu for me)
6. after upgrade follows the „init 5 && exit“ command ( alias „exdu“)

7. Again I have to login as normal user.
Here the same problem as after step 4. Is there a way to include user login in step 6??

The only annoyances for me are the logins in step 5. and 7. Is there a way to include these within the commands in steps 4. and 6. ?? or is there a cool script that does that for you?
I've searched for the charon script, but could't find it. Although the team abandoned the script, could you please provide a link for potential developers to examine it?? (you can also mail it to me).


I was thinking about test-installing Archlinux where upgrades and installs are all done in X. How do they do it without making the system unstable?
I like aptosid/debian too much to leave it for another distro. As said, the problem for me is not going into init 3, but the logins and outs while doing it.

Cheers,
nox
 
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muchan
Post subject:   PostPosted: 29.11.2010, 01:57
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      Quote:

The only annoyances for me are the logins in step 5. and 7. Is there a way to include these within the commands in steps 4. and 6. ?? or is there a cool script that does that for you?
I've searched for the charon script, but could't find it. Although the team abandoned the script, could you please provide a link for potential developers to examine it?? (you can also mail it to me).


just some ideas...
for login in step 5, you need to login to root at least once in one of many VTs.
but if you login once, and not exit, then you stay there when you put init 3 next time.
can be tty1, but can be more unexpected place, like tty5...
(can be very bad idea, indeed)
-- sure, there is possibility, that someone comes to your PC, and press
ctrl+alt+F5 (or F1, or any) and see root previledge, and ruin your system...
think about make some program to lock the tty, unlocking with someway faster
than "login problem of step 5"? if you think of it, you solve the step 5.

once you chose constantly logged-in root tty and find the way to satisfy your security...
you may chose not to shutdown the PC often, but just hybernate it, then you don't need to login to tty again...

for step7... session managers have configuration to login automatically.
(at least slim has... I don't know exactly but kdm and gdm should have some way
for auto login?
Here again, you may not want auto-login to X at booting, that anyone who boot will have
access to your data... in this case... some script to modify session manager's config file on-the-fly after d-u and before init 5... and other script to set auto-login off before shutdown... I don't know. this also can be very bad idea,
but you asked. Cool

Well, I don't find login so annoying...
 
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muchan
Post subject:   PostPosted: 29.11.2010, 02:19
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Posts: 468

second thought about step 5... constantly logged in tty.

1) create a dummy user who has no private data. no special file access outside his home... can set that even no password for him...
2) login as that dummy user in tty instead of root
3) create a script to run only if in runlevel3, su-to-root or "su -c" and do d-u and init 5 after asking root password once... the dummy user doesn't have write access to that file, just execute access.
then you don't need to exit/logoff, the dummy user is constantly logged into the tty.
This way... you need to type password for d-u, but not need to login for step 5...

or 3b) you 'su' and do d-u and init 5 and exit.. (not from tty..)
This way.. you type 2 chars 'su' instead of 'root' Smile

for step 7, you can just set default user, and you type only password at starting X.
 
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