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gutterslobOffline
Post subject: Core/Base version of aptosid? (without desktop environment)  PostPosted: 22.01.2011, 10:24



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Greetings,

Been putting aptosid through it's paces for the last couple of months or so. Used to be a big fan of sidux as well.

My question/suggestion/request;

Are there any plans for a 'Core/Base/Minimal' version of aptosid? One that installs all the standard apps, utilities and aptosid-specific scripts/tweaks/apps/kernel, but doesn't install a desktop environment or GDM/KDM.

Reason I'm asking is;
I love Xfce, but when it comes to my netbook and older (read: very old) systems, I refer something lighter like ScrotWM, Musca, DWM or a spartan Openbox install. For the recent aptosid install, I started with the Xfce version and stripped all Xfce-related stuff (except for xfce4-power-manager) and some gui apps before I installed my tiling WM of choice. It would be much easier (and also much less chance of leaving cruft behind) if there was a version that only installed the base system and Xorg.

Yes, I know you'll suggest I do a Debian netinstall, add aptosid sources, and pick and choose what I want to install (or install ArchLinux or Free-BSD) . I already do that with some of my other systems (if it's to be Debian-based, I usually start with the the excellent GRML distro) but I like most of what aptosid offers (in it's Xfce version, at least ... dunno about KDE) with regards to the kernel, scripts, Ceni, dmakms, etc, and a 'Core/Base'version would save me a lot of time sorting what I need for different hardware.

If there already is a way to get the installer to install a base system without a desktop environment (or X), could someone let me know? I don't remember seeing that option the last time I did an aptosid install.

Cheers.
 
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muchan
Post subject: RE: Core/Base version of aptosid? (without desktop environme  PostPosted: 22.01.2011, 10:50
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It is not about saving disk space, isn't it?

So, once you install your favorite light weight WM, you chose default
session to start it, instead of XFCE4, and that's it.

I use this way on my home PC, using slim and fvwm on aptosid-xfce system.

You can purge the packages that you don't need, but you can do it later.
(like when d-u wants them to upgrade, you purge the package you don't
need before downloading them.)

But I keep xfce4-terminal, as my favorite terminal. also thunar.
 
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slamOffline
Post subject: RE: Core/Base version of aptosid? (without desktop environme  PostPosted: 22.01.2011, 12:54
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We are working on a very lite aptosid-LXDE version which will most likely match the needs of all users of older hardware, but also of purists and people who want to give most ressources to their applications instead of giving them to the desktop enviromment/manager.
Greetings,
Chris

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belzeOffline
Post subject: Re: RE: Core/Base version of aptosid? (without desktop envir  PostPosted: 23.01.2011, 17:39



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      slam wrote:
We are working on a very lite aptosid-LXDE version which will most likely match the needs of all users of older hardware, but also of purists and people who want to give most ressources to their applications instead of giving them to the desktop enviromment/manager.
Greetings,
Chris

good idea! iìll use it for sure!
 
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broweOffline
Post subject: RE: Re: RE: Core/Base version of aptosid? (without desktop e  PostPosted: 24.01.2011, 19:19



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Think about going one step futher, aptosid-CLI. This could be a very small rescue disk / base installer with no wm and just the bare minimum of daemons. Include scripts to do an install and pick a wm/environment from there, and leave an option for CLI only. There is no need for anything other than CLI on an aptosid router, print server or media server. Personally I always do a lite install and purge/remove a lot of programs, then install the ones I want to use. Even with this method I'm sure I have unused lib files lurking on my machines.
 
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gutterslobOffline
Post subject: RE: Re: RE: Core/Base version of aptosid? (without desktop e  PostPosted: 25.01.2011, 16:27



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@slam
I agree with the last post by @browe.
Personally, I'm not a fan of LXDE and don't think it'll be that much lighter then the Xfce variant. Standalone OpenBox > LXDE. The only useful part of the LXDE "suite" I would use in a standalone OpenBox session would be LXappearance. PCmanFM isn't as stable as Thunar in my experience (though that was probably an earlier version I used), and the LXpanel has got to be the fugliest panel in existence (give me bmpanel or tint2 anytime).
Still, much thanks for taking the time and effort to go lighter, even if it's only marginal.
Despite my reservations, I'll definitely give the LXDE offering a shot once released.
Thank you.

@browe
+1 to everything you stated.
aptosid-CLI would be a great offering. Sort of like a GRML, but with aptosid scripts/apps and SLH kernels.
I share your experience of finding unrequired libs remaining even after an apt-get autoremove. If I recall correctly, a netinstall of the standard Debian Squeeze iso (32 bit) with Ratpoison or ScrotWM added after only uses around 30+MB once up and running on a regular Pentium Dual Core desktop, a bit more on my netbook with acpi, bluetooth, irqbalance...etc included. It would be great if you could get something similar from an aptosid install.
 
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slamOffline
Post subject: RE: Re: RE: Core/Base version of aptosid? (without desktop e  PostPosted: 25.01.2011, 17:46
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In our internal build tests we already do use variants of aptosid "cli-only", there is also a cli-installer, and some of us do build their own (mostly server related) costumized isos already. However, stuff needs to be supportable and maintained, otherwise creating official supported releases out of all that does not make sense at all. Please also understand that our main focus is to make sid stable as a rolling release, and not spread even more flavours of snapshots from sid, because they are already outdated when released.

Greetings,
Chris

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LanziOffline
Post subject: RE: Re: RE: Core/Base version of aptosid? (without desktop e  PostPosted: 27.01.2011, 14:13



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      Quote:

We are working on a very lite aptosid-LXDE version which will most likely match the needs of all users of older hardware,


Thats cool!!!

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IrfanOffline
12 Post subject: RE: Re: RE: Core/Base version of aptosid? (without desktop e  PostPosted: 02.02.2011, 21:45



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Salute gentlemen,

I would suggest an openbox based lite version:

1. openbox
2. pcmanfm
3. lxdm or lightDM
4. lxterminal or urxvt or terminator
5. fbpanel or tint2

Optional:
6. lxappearance
7. wbar

References: CTKArch, Slitaz, Madbox

Regards,
Irfan.


Last edited by Irfan on 19.02.2011, 12:29; edited 7 times in total
 
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slhOffline
Post subject: RE: Re: RE: Core/Base version of aptosid? (without desktop e  PostPosted: 02.02.2011, 23:33



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You see the problem?
Once you go really light, it's no longer possible to provide a "generic" solution that suits "everyone".

A light LXDE is likely the smallest we might go, if there is enough developer momentum behind it, as it is possible to come up with a functionally "complete" desktop environment covering all "usual" tasks for LXDE.

Regarding requests for "cli-only" or "just X" ISOs, it's safe to assume that we will "never" release anything like that. Aptosid is not the right tool for everything - and for heavily customized stuff you need a package based approach (d-i/ g-i).
 
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finottiOffline
Post subject: RE: Re: RE: Core/Base version of aptosid? (without desktop e  PostPosted: 06.02.2011, 13:59



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I know it is a waste during installation, but how about just purging KDE after installation and just use fluxbox, which comes with, at least, the KDE version. Fluxbox is very light weight and works well.

And, although I am not that interested in that, I was wondering why the preference for LXDE over fluxbox. It seems that since fluxbox already comes with aptosid, it would be easier to make a light weight version with it...

Best to all,

Luis
 
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belzeOffline
Post subject: RE: Re: RE: Core/Base version of aptosid? (without desktop e  PostPosted: 06.02.2011, 15:34



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+1 fluxbox is just enough for my lightweight needs!
 
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DeepDayzeOffline
Post subject: Re: RE: Re: RE: Core/Base version of aptosid? (without deskt  PostPosted: 06.02.2011, 16:00



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      Irfan wrote:
Salute gentlemen,

I would request the following arrangement for a truly light version of aptosid:

Openbox + fbpanel / tint2 + wbar + thunar / pcmanfm + conky + lxdm / lightDM / sLiM + lxappearance + lxterminal / rxvt-unicode + a nice gtk theme,icons,font

(References: CrunchBang, CTKArch)

Regards,
Irfan.


Now that would become Crunchy Aptosid Very Happy

A Crunchbang-like spin of Aptosid should be doable as long as the basic infrastructure does not change too much, like what slh has mentioned. Perhaps this discussion be moved to Dragons section?
 
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ghstryderOffline
Post subject: RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: Core/Base version of aptosid? (without d  PostPosted: 06.02.2011, 16:18



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I can appreciate the folks who are all about 'light, fast, moar, moar!' but given limited resources, I am casting a vote for what we have now, which is pretty hard to beat. Thanks again to the aptosid team.
 
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BelaLugosiOffline
Post subject: Re: RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: Core/Base version of aptosid? (witho  PostPosted: 06.02.2011, 20:48



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      ghstryder wrote:
I can appreciate the folks who are all about 'light, fast, moar, moar!' but given limited resources, I am casting a vote for what we have now, which is pretty hard to beat. Thanks again to the aptosid team.


Full ACK!

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